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Thread: The Uwe Rösler Thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kettering Bee View Post
    Check our league position, check our points tally, consider what a kind fixture list we've been blessed with. My thoughts are informed by experience. My views on yesterday are an assessment not fact. One thing I'm certain about is, it ain't mere speculation.

    I wonder where Uwe (and you) think we will finish the season if we persist with this risk averse approach. I think 9th possibly 8th - more informed assessment, I'm afraid.
    My point was that to assume we would continue to dominate and take the game if we went 2 up front and 4 across the middle was speculation but agree that 99% of what you and any of us here say on here is only an assessment and not fact.

    Also, if you read all my post, you will see I disagree with Uwe's risk adverse policy, just don't throw the baby out with the bath water. The football we played yesterday, admittedly without the glaringly absent end product, was very good. I beleive we might oly be a gnats chuff away from getting it right and it might well be a less risk adverse policy that will be it. Being less risk adverse doesn't just mean not making the subs Uwe tends to make but it might also mean encouraging runs from central midfield such as the movement that lead to Douglas' goal yesterday or more overlapping of full backs.

    Rosler is learning his trade and improving all the time. An ethos or approach won't and shouldn't change overnight. If we had a manager that changed his style or approach in response to everything that went wrong I would be more worried than I am now. Would you be comfortable working for a boss that came in every Monday morning and changed everything. We need tweaks not wholesale change

  2. #4377
    Quote Originally Posted by I'll Bee Damned View Post
    Rosler is learning his trade and improving all the time.
    Where is the evidence for that? We are pretty much where we were this time last season. Great performances, sparsity of goals, brilliant foward who can't be relied on to put it away.
    You could even make an argument that we've gone backward, 'cos defensively we seem less assured this time around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scruff puppy pup View Post
    Where is the evidence for that? We are pretty much where we were this time last season. Great performances, sparsity of goals, brilliant foward who can't be relied on to put it away.
    You could even make an argument that we've gone backward, 'cos defensively we seem less assured this time around.
    Ok, Forrester or Weston, Forshaw or Saunders, Dean & Craig or Legge & Osbourne - not all clear cut but which would you take?? What sort of strength do we have in the squad compared to last term? The team is better and playing better football. I would disagree that defensively we are less assured (recent evidence, our first choice centre half pairing didn't allow anyone a free header yesterday such as the one for the second goal when our second choice pairing were playing) but would agree on the scarcity of goals being an issue. I just believe that if Uwe can cut loose and take a few more risks and try not to shut the game out so early this team could make huge strides forward. I don't think the same applies to last year's team as the quality wasn't there - that is my reason for believing he is learning and we are moving forward.

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    Reading the interview on the OS he is now beginning to go down the well trod path of blaming the players, notably Harlee. Not one word acknowledging that he may have got the subs wrong again. Apparently Jake was tired and we had problems down the left which he solved with the substitution and by moving Craig to LB. Must have been a great success cos we then ship 2 goals.
    The blokes arrogance is now really starting to p**s me off.
    Oh and its all fine if we keep winning our home games and start to hold on to a one goal lead away. He just doesn't get it. He has bugger all idea of football at this level and in this country and wont learn because he thinks that he is always right. At this rate we will be looking at another wasted season come the end of November and I for one will seriously think that my money could be better spent elsewhere than at Griffin Park. I am so bloody fed up with season after season of hopes coming to nothing that I am close to saying sod it thats enough!

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    Quote Originally Posted by beebopalula View Post
    This is a pointless discussion. I've said it before so I'll repeat it again, you can't tell whether that would have produced a different outcome. Teams who are trailing push men forward in the last 20 mins. If you want to try and combat that by trying to push on in their half, well O.K but you have to face the possibility that you'll get undone. We aren't football managers. You won't find a manager in this league who wouldn't have tried to shut the game down. In the end, we lost cos they hit a blooter and our centre backs weren't picking up a striker. That's not due to tactics. In fact if we were that haphazard at the back and the game had gone nip and tuck which is how I think it would have if we had followed your line, then we might have conceded more.
    we lost cos we didnt finish the game off when it was there for finishing off....donnie were on the ropes and we let them back in it.....pure and simple and its cos we keep only playing `1 up front away from home,,,,its just madness
    we all knew what was going to happen apart from herr rosler.....everyone who was actually there could see that it was 3 points lost and even a draw would have been rubbish.....totally thrown away AGAIN
    it's God's job to forgive the Taliban, it's the Royal Marines job to arrange the meeting

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    Completely agree he should have gone two upfront after 55 minutes to finish the game off as clayton was firing blanks and never looked like scoring. It would have been a positive move that would not have given dony the impetus to attack as we would still have been on the front rather than stepping backwards allowing them to come on to us

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    Quote Originally Posted by BURFORD BEE View Post
    Reading the interview on the OS he is now beginning to go down the well trod path of blaming the players, notably Harlee. Not one word acknowledging that he may have got the subs wrong again. Apparently Jake was tired and we had problems down the left which he solved with the substitution and by moving Craig to LB. Must have been a great success cos we then ship 2 goals.
    I think O'Connor was an error of judgement but you must have seen that Harlee was no-where near Paynter, who had lost him completely. All the danger and both of their goals came from our right; the left was open to them until Craig went to LB.
    When the wind of change blows some build walls, others build windmills...

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    My take on Uwe is after 13 games if we continue to play and set up in fear of the opposition we will not make the play offs.He needs to change this approach now while we are still in with a shout as l still believe the squad is good enough.I hope Uwe succeeds but the next 6 games will define our season and even if we limp on to January with much of the same l would question the wisdom of keeping him as he nears the end of his contract.Have to add I found his post match comments unconvincing.

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  11. #4384
    Quote Originally Posted by I'll Bee Damned View Post
    Ok, Forrester or Weston, Forshaw or Saunders, Dean & Craig or Legge & Osbourne - not all clear cut but which would you take?? What sort of strength do we have in the squad compared to last term? The team is better and playing better football. I would disagree that defensively we are less assured (recent evidence, our first choice centre half pairing didn't allow anyone a free header yesterday such as the one for the second goal when our second choice pairing were playing) but would agree on the scarcity of goals being an issue. I just believe that if Uwe can cut loose and take a few more risks and try not to shut the game out so early this team could make huge strides forward. I don't think the same applies to last year's team as the quality wasn't there - that is my reason for believing he is learning and we are moving forward.
    Forrester was with us last season and I have been ranting on here for so long for him not just to start but to have a side built around him, it's taken Uwe this long to realise that Forrester offers more than Saunders. As for defensively, I'd take Osbourne.
    Anyway, the outcome is the same: lack of goals. Goals get you out of this division and as long as Rosler has been manager, we haven't been able to score them regularly enough. Last season was one of the dullest I can recall. For all the talk of our performances we were toothless and never threatened the sides in the promotion race. I want to see our chairman/benefactor make some noise, ask some questions in public to let our manager know that more is required than what is being delivered at the moment. Brentford are always so bloody reasonable, that's why success has just passed them by for the past fifty years. Reasonable means you just stay in this division, because that is where our average gate places us. Unreasonable means you start hitting above your weight, which is what the Crazy Gang did. It's what Blackpool did more recently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Benn View Post
    My take on Uwe is after 13 games if we continue to play and set up in fear of the opposition we will not make the play offs.He needs to change this approach now while we are still in with a shout as l still believe the squad is good enough.I hope Uwe succeeds but the next 6 games will define our season and even if we limp on to January with much of the same l would question the wisdom of keeping him as he nears the end of his contract.Have to add I found his post match comments unconvincing.
    well thought through. no ranting or raving but a good,mature proposal. yes.

  13. #4386
    Quote Originally Posted by blunstone View Post
    well thought through. no ranting or raving but a good,mature proposal. yes.
    Absolutely. We're British. Mustn't show passion. Very reasonable post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Headbee View Post
    We have problems under Uwe's management which have been very plain to see for many months, yet these are not being addressed correctly and indeed, are made worse by the tactics he seems wedded to.
    1) We are desperately short of a quick, quality striker, who can work alongside Clayton and free him from the burden of being the prolific striker we know he's unlikely to be. We have known
    exactly what was needed for over a season yet have spent unwisely and failed to meet our most pressing need. If we could score more goals we would win more matches.
    2) Uwe presses the panic button by going defensive rather than offensive when games need to be seen out or won, thus always handing the initiative to our opponents, who often have
    not been in the game up to that point. He has created pressures for the team that often were not there before.
    3) He believes the team should just funnel back into defending their area deep and therefore allows continued pressure and possession to the opposition. When you give away the momentum
    and possession, you are inviting the opposition to score and most often they do so.
    4) During these now quite regular spells of deep defending with no outlet options, our players are pressured into making errors that cost us games. Uwe blames such individual mistakes for our
    bad luck, but in reality it is the tactics (and the lack of the quality striker) that are our downfall.
    Thats the way i see it to

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    I remain largely in favour of what Uwe is doing but agree his problem is deciding to sit back on a lead and not continuing to impose ourselves on the opposition. However, don't throw the baby out with the bath water as the club, at all levels, is moving forward in small increments. For those wondering what MB is thinking I have a theory. He built a successful business over time not overnight and during that process I bet there were ripples and setbacks but took them as an opportunity to learn and improve. If he sees that the first team under Uwe is moving forward and (I hope) Uwe learning and discarding what doesn't, blatantly, work then he will be happy. Uwe does have to realise that if you do what you have always done you will get what you always got. There have been enough opportunities to see now that giving the initiative to the opposition is wrong

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    Quote Originally Posted by I'll Bee Damned View Post
    I remain largely in favour of what Uwe is doing but agree his problem is deciding to sit back on a lead and not continuing to impose ourselves on the opposition. However, don't throw the baby out with the bath water as the club, at all levels, is moving forward in small increments. For those wondering what MB is thinking I have a theory. He built a successful business over time not
    overnight and during that process I bet there were ripples and setbacks but took them as an opportunity to learn and improve. If he sees that the first team under Uwe is moving forward and (I hope) Uwe learning and discarding
    what doesn't, blatantly, work then he will be happy. Uwe does have to realise that if you do what you have always done
    you will get what you always got. There have been enough opportunities to see now that giving the initiative
    to the opposition is wrong

    Good post, my only concern is that given the apparent lack of quality this season we shouldn't waste the opportunity this time around.

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    I find it hard to understand the speculation that Uwe will go. Unless we are in danger of relegation, which I seriously believe will not happen, then Uwe will remain manager until his contract expires. I would expect around January time MB will start to consider his options for the future and if he believes that Uwe is not the man to take us to the Championship, then he will start the process of trying to find someone who can. For all we know by that time we might be firmly entrenched in the play-off places with a real chance of automatic promotion and then we will be facing a different problem in trying to ward off other clubs who would like Uwe to take charge.

    All in all it seems a common sense approach to me. Having said all that I do really get frustrated by our ability to turn winning positions in draws, or defeat, but I also believe that the players should look in the mirror and realise they have responsibilities as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Houghton Bee View Post
    he's put together a team with a lot of potential. he's got us playing some of the best football i've seen a brentford team play, .
    Do you seriously think this?

    I just don't see it personally, for a couple of good players he has brought in (Forshaw/ Dean) he has brought in some shockers...
    I think the division and therefore opposition is possibly the 'worst' I can remember for decades, which is why we are bound to play 'a bit' of football...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenholme Bee View Post
    Do you seriously think this?

    I just don't see it personally, for a couple of good players he has brought in (Forshaw/ Dean) he has brought in some shockers...
    I think the division and therefore opposition is possibly the 'worst' I can remember for decades, which is why we are bound to play 'a bit' of football...
    yes i do emphasis on the 'some of' though, always room for improvement. i'd add forrester and logan to the list of good players he's brought in too, i liked what i've seen from farid but i think uwe used him wrongly, dallas has potential.

    is the next issue of TITS going to be a moan-fest then?!
    Brentford ARE Back

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    I cannot understand why Uwe is attempting to close shop in these away games. On paper and by the way we are playing, we shouldn't be afraid of teams like Scunny or Doncaster.
    I can totally understand if subs need to be made on injuries and tiredness and positions need freshening up. But surely Barron should have come on to maintain the shape and manner of the back 4. And when Forshaw needed to come off, put Dallas on or bring on Spencer or Hayes and switch 442 to keep Doncaster on their toes.
    I just hope that he has learnt something from yesterday and he will apply more positive thinking in the latter stages of a game. He has even done it at home v Oldham and we nearly come unstuck then.
    That said, I do think we are only a whisker away from being the real deal. Uwe needs to instill a mean streak in this team or try to find a way to turn our dominance in the first hour or so into goals. For me, this is what he will be judged on in the run up to xmas because he isn't going anywhere, like it or not

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    I haven't been at many games recently, so can't comment on specifics. However, reading this thread, a few things occur to me.

    First, when discussing a manager's "tactical deficiencies" in a game (eg dropping back too deep yesterday, wrong subs, inviting Donny on etc), fans frustrated with their manager invariably overlook one* crucial point. Namely, there is another manager and set of players out there, who are doing their damnedest to change the game, too. Taking yesterday as an example, if BFC were coasting up until 70 mins, say, but then saw the game turn against them, isn't it just possible that UR and the players were trying to resist that, but after an hour of being outthought and outplayed etc, the Donny manager and players finally figured out where they had been going wrong and changed their approach? (And I accept that that may not apply to Donny specifically, but you get my point generally).

    Two, when a team is playing tip-top stuff, then they will generally be so far ahead after 60 mins etc, that they'll be out-of-sight of any comeback. OK, BFC aren't scoring enough goals to have reached that happy situation yet, but it is blind (imo) to ignore the progress which is being made to at least get a good hour in.

    Third, re Donny specifically, how many other times this season will they score a goal like their first one yesterday? At this level, if you're confining teams to shooting from distance/angles etc, it suggests that you're doing more things right than wrong. And if you keep doing that, eventually it must come good.

    Four, sometimes people need to step back, so as to "see the wood for the trees". There is an enormous amount of work going on at BFC these days. This includes Scouting, Youth teams, Development Squad, 1st team, medical/sports science, training and facilities, the development of a BFC "coaching style" throughout the club, plus transfers and loans etc in and out. Now clearly UR's primary responsibility must be with events between 3 pm and 4.45 pm each Saturday etc. But he also has to have a major input on all the other aspects, too, in order for the club to grow coherently and consistently. Obviously an experienced manager like Ferguson or Wenger is going to be on top of everything at their clubs etc, but when you consider the enormity of what's happening at GP since Scott left, then UR must have a huge amount on his plate, which I fear is being overlooked. (And for those who point to all the support staff he has, I would remind them that it's not just a case of appointing them then sitting back and letting them get on with it - UR needs to manage them, too).

    Fifth, if Sacking the Manager is the answer, then how come teams like eg Rochdale, Northampton, Bradford, Bristol Rovers etc are so shit? Because there is a clear correlation between the teams at the bottom of the table, and the number of times they sack their manager. And anyhow, which replacement could BFC get who would be pretty much guaranteed to do significantly better, quicker?

    Finally, unless you're talking about a seasoned, consistently successful veteran, all managers need time to learn their trade, and when I say "time", I mean more than a season and a half. On which point, I always refer back to the best of the lot, Alex Ferguson. When he went to MU, he had been a very accomplished manager in Scotland, was in his mid-40's, was inheriting a decent (if not outstanding) squad/team from Atkinson (Robson, Whiteside, McGrath etc), and was given reasonable money to spend. Yet it still took him SIX FULL SEASONS before MU won the League. During those six seasons, there were many MU fans who wanted him out.

    Now I'm not saying that UR is the next Ferguson - he clearly isn't. But if even the great managers need time to build something consistent and enduring, then surely lesser managers need at least as much time, if not more?





    * - As well as the fact that 90% have never managed so much as an U-11 schoolboys team

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan D View Post
    I find it hard to understand the speculation that Uwe will go. Unless we are in danger of relegation, which I seriously believe will not happen, then Uwe will remain manager until his contract expires. I would expect around January time MB will start to consider his options for the future and if he believes that Uwe is not the man to take us to the Championship, then he will start the process of trying to find someone who can. For all we know by that time we might be firmly entrenched in the play-off places with a real chance of automatic promotion and then we will be facing a different problem in trying to ward off other clubs who would like Uwe to take charge.

    All in all it seems a common sense approach to me. Having said all that I do really get frustrated by our ability to turn winning positions in draws, or defeat, but I also believe that the players should look in the mirror and realise they have responsibilities as well.
    The turnround in performances has been huge.We now have a team that is comfortable on the ball and can play. Some are criticising the manager for not being able to shut down games or being negative. Well maybe that's a bit more of our football education-learning how to shut games down.No side can dominate a game for 90 mins-it just doesn't happen , so you need to understand how to close down a game too. It's as fundamental as learning how to control games while keeping possession. What has been achieved in one season in terms of playing style and upgrading personnel has been immense and all within the same budget given to Scott. I agree wholeheartedly with your comment that the players need to have a good look at themslelves. Uwe can't legislate for the errors and missed chances .We are 13 games into the season and I'm certain that MB will see Uwe as a long term investment. One thing is certain and that is that Uwe has already built a reputation for playing the right way and being tactically astute. You only have to read the comments from other managers who acknowledge that we are a good team. I'm sure that Uwe won't be short of interest from Championship clubs at the end of this season and we may struggle to keep him come what may.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ealing Bee View Post
    I haven't been at many games recently, so can't comment on specifics. However, reading this thread, a few things occur to me.

    First, when discussing a manager's "tactical deficiencies" in a game (eg dropping back too deep yesterday, wrong subs, inviting Donny on etc), fans frustrated with their manager invariably overlook one* crucial point. Namely, there is another manager and set of players out there, who are doing their damnedest to change the game, too. Taking yesterday as an example, if BFC were coasting up until 70 mins, say, but then saw the game turn against them, isn't it just possible that UR and the players were trying to resist that, but after an hour of being outthought and outplayed etc, the Donny manager and players finally figured out where they had been going wrong and changed their approach? (And I accept that that may not apply to Donny specifically, but you get my point generally).

    Two, when a team is playing tip-top stuff, then they will generally be so far ahead after 60 mins etc, that they'll be out-of-sight of any comeback. OK, BFC aren't scoring enough goals to have reached that happy situation yet, but it is blind (imo) to ignore the progress which is being made to at least get a good hour in.

    Third, re Donny specifically, how many other times this season will they score a goal like their first one yesterday? At this level, if you're confining teams to shooting from distance/angles etc, it suggests that you're doing more things right than wrong. And if you keep doing that, eventually it must come good.

    Four, sometimes people need to step back, so as to "see the wood for the trees". There is an enormous amount of work going on at BFC these days. This includes Scouting, Youth teams, Development Squad, 1st team, medical/sports science, training and facilities, the development of a BFC "coaching style" throughout the club, plus transfers and loans etc in and out. Now clearly UR's primary responsibility must be with events between 3 pm and 4.45 pm each Saturday etc. But he also has to have a major input on all the other aspects, too, in order for the club to grow coherently and consistently. Obviously an experienced manager like Ferguson or Wenger is going to be on top of everything at their clubs etc, but when you consider the enormity of what's happening at GP since Scott left, then UR must have a huge amount on his plate, which I fear is being overlooked. (And for those who point to all the support staff he has, I would remind them that it's not just a case of appointing them then sitting back and letting them get on with it - UR needs to manage them, too).

    Fifth, if Sacking the Manager is the answer, then how come teams like eg Rochdale, Northampton, Bradford, Bristol Rovers etc are so shit? Because there is a clear correlation between the teams at the bottom of the table, and the number of times they sack their manager. And anyhow, which replacement could BFC get who would be pretty much guaranteed to do significantly better, quicker?

    Finally, unless you're talking about a seasoned, consistently successful veteran, all managers need time to learn their trade, and when I say "time", I mean more than a season and a half. On which point, I always refer back to the best of the lot, Alex Ferguson. When he went to MU, he had been a very accomplished manager in Scotland, was in his mid-40's, was inheriting a decent (if not outstanding) squad/team from Atkinson (Robson, Whiteside, McGrath etc), and was given reasonable money to spend. Yet it still took him SIX FULL SEASONS before MU won the League. During those six seasons, there were many MU fans who wanted him out.

    Now I'm not saying that UR is the next Ferguson - he clearly isn't. But if even the great managers need time to build something consistent and enduring, then surely lesser managers need at least as much time, if not more?





    * - As well as the fact that 90% have never managed so much as an U-11 schoolboys team
    You are so sensible mate.Thankfully, it's only a minority who can't see the wood for the trees but they are noisy

  28. #4397
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebopalula View Post
    The turnround in performances has been huge.We now have a team that is comfortable on the ball and can play. Some are criticising the manager for not being able to shut down games or being negative. Well maybe that's a bit more of our football education-learning how to shut games down.No side can dominate a game for 90 mins-it just doesn't happen , so you need to understand how to close down a game too. It's as fundamental as learning how to control games while keeping possession. What has been achieved in one season in terms of playing style and upgrading personnel has been immense and all within the same budget given to Scott. I agree wholeheartedly with your comment that the players need to have a good look at themslelves. Uwe can't legislate for the errors and missed chances .We are 13 games into the season and I'm certain that MB will see Uwe as a long term investment. One thing is certain and that is that Uwe has already built a reputation for playing the right way and being tactically astute. You only have to read the comments from other managers who acknowledge that we are a good team. I'm sure that Uwe won't be short of interest from Championship clubs at the end of this season and we may struggle to keep him come what may.
    im loving your last sentence.........i wish someone would 'prise' him away from us now

    i reckon its the 0-0 against bottom of the league winless bury which will secure him a top job at a championship side set on taking the world by storm
    it's God's job to forgive the Taliban, it's the Royal Marines job to arrange the meeting

  29. #4398
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voice from the Braemar View Post
    im loving your last sentence.........i wish someone would 'prise' him away from us now

    i reckon its the 0-0 against bottom of the league winless bury which will secure him a top job at a championship side set on taking the world by storm
    It's about playing football the right way and having the tactical nous to succeed at a higher level. That's what clubs will buy into.I think you're expecting miracles in too short a time frame. Surely you can see that we are immeasurably better in playing terms than we were 12 months ago? Anyway, you and I will have to disagree on Uwe. I'm certain of one thing and that is that MB will stick by his man because we are a cigarette paper's width from being very good. So,you'll have to learn to love rotation, possession football,varying tactics and shutting down games. Enjoy

  30. #4399
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    You can dress up perfromances how you like, we missed this, could not defend etc etc. Ultimately what has been happening from last season and all of this season, and has become clear and predictable, is that we are good at dominating games through possession often getting into winning positions, so far so good. We then proceed to hand the initiative to the opposition largely through tactical naivety (after about 70 minutes) imo and often end up drawing or losing when we should have won. Its been going on for some time now, yes sometimes we get away with it but its hardly top 6 form, especially with the squad we have. In addition to that we are not scoring enough (does not matter who), something that has not been addressed from last season. The most worrying thing for me is that Uwe does not seem to be able to learn from his mistakes. I remember Sheff Utd away last season when he took off CD and McGinn at HT when it was 0-0 (and we were giving as good as we got), the only 2 players with pace were removed and it was only a matter of time before we lost. Bury away against 10 men with 10 minutes to go etc etc. Am I missing something here?
    It was just one of those things....

  31. #4400
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    Quote Originally Posted by Houghton Bee View Post
    is the next issue of TITS going to be a moan-fest then?!
    Isn't it always?!

    No, to be honest we've stepped out of the debate in print really.
    Contary to belief we both want the man and club to succeed and the next issue is a fairly light hearted read I think....

  32. 1 user(s) liked this post
    Houghton Bee (22nd October 2012)
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