Full Time: England 1 (Gordon) Argentina 2

[Banana]

Need to have any front man as manager and jmf telling him what to do. Easy.

 

[Untouchable]

Need to have any front man as manager and jmf telling him what to do. Easy.

TF and jmf back together again…

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Our sophisticated foreign manager's last tactics were putting 2 big lads up front.

 

[aawharris]

Would much prefer everyone to get behind Tuchel unless there is a preference for the likes of Eddie Howe to become the next England manager. He's had us playing exciting football for much of the tournament - which we haven't seen in God knows how long - and unless someone has Pep down the back of their sofa there is no better manager to lead us into the Euros. We're all gutted but that doesn't mean heads should roll.

We played exciting football for about one half of thr tournament

 

[Canterbee]

I suppose until the week is up I will be considering myself a sort of honorary Spaniard. Always liked them well enough and a back to back Argentine victory would be intolerable.

 

[LostBee]

Would much prefer everyone to get behind Tuchel unless there is a preference for the likes of Eddie Howe to become the next England manager. He's had us playing exciting football for much of the tournament

Has he?

Apart from a 10 min spell against an ancient Croatia and hanging on for grim life against Mexico (which admittedly was a great result with 10 men) - its been f***ing turgid hasn't it?

Perception is everything I guess but I thought a lot of it was caveman tactics right from the Big Sam playbook.

 

[aslan]

f*** off Tuchel

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Rooney is fuming. Good man.

 

[bexleybee]

Anyone want a virtual white plastic garden chair or table to throw around?

 

[davebee]

We invited them to bring on more forwards as we showed intent of just defending.
Even at 1-1 we sat back. To counter their forwards we brought on defenders.
Put attackers on and scare them.
One of their remaining defenders had a yellow. Run at him. Put him under pressure.

I agree it ended up too defensive. I suspect he made the initial change to offset the impact of de paul and the momentum just kept shifting. All i am saying is it is very difficult to be brave and throw an attacker on to try and regain control.

 

[filmyfan]

Dan Burn up front - that will do it

 

[gbems92]

Rooney is fuming. Good man.

With his managerial record I wouldn't get carried away...

 

[aawharris]

Grow up pr1ck, or are you referring to England

What?
Are you defending Argentinas lovely tactics?

 

[LostBee]

So WHY WHY WHY did we decide to not press the man at the edge of the box? no logic behind it.

The goal was coming anyway - we'd been immensely fortunate not to concede before that.

 

[IkastBee]

When I saw Burn up front I got nightmare flashbacks to Charlie Goode up front.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Dan Burn up front - that will do it

Dan Burn at the back. That'll do it

 

[Owlsmoor_Bee]

As poor a piece of management as you will EVER see. So cowardly and naive it’s barely believable. You could see it coming for a full 20 minutes before their equaliser. Chance after chance they carved out because we gave them 90% of the pitch. Handed a victory to a team of cloggers who we were better than because our manager was afraid.

I’m not sure I’ve ever been so angry as a result of a football match.

 

[josht]

To go six at the back and defend deep against the most technically adept team in the world is so tactically inferior.

I still can't believe he did it. It was so pathetic. We were so good up to that point, really comfortable.

I'm more angry with him than I am that we got knocked out.

 

[Canterbee]

Has he?

Apart from a 10 min spell against an ancient Croatia and hanging on for grim life against Mexico (which admittedly was a great result with 10 men) - its been f***ing turgid hasn't it?

Perception is everything I guess but I thought a lot of it was caveman tactics right from the Big Sam playbook.

It's clearly unpopular! Goes back to perception I suppose, I've always been pleased with the forward thinking play although admittedly it all went to pot tonight. The last thing I want is a manager merry go round full of subpar English managers but perhaps for some that's preferable too.

 

[aslan]

6 at the back? w***.
Conceding and then still waiting until we concede again before changing it. w***.
Dan f***ing Burn running around up top in a World Cup semi-final when we need a goal? f***ing w***.
Playing it back to Pickford to punt it aimlessly into their box instead of trying to work a cross? w***

 

[Banana]

Anyone want a virtual white plastic garden chair or table to throw around?

I'm on the tube to Trafalgar Square. See you there.

 

[Banana]

Coded messages from Kane about going too defensive too. *two

 

[Stofer]

Tuchel, tactical genius my hole.
We surrendered when being a goal up.
I can’t stand this Argentina team, but when they stop acting like s**t bags and play football, they are a very good side.

Onto to Spurs, COYB!!!

 

[Untouchable]

unless there is a preference for the likes of Eddie Howe to become the next England manager.

No thank you. Please see my published works on this topic.

 

[LostBee]

It's clearly unpopular! Goes back to perception I suppose, I've always been pleased with the forward thinking play although admittedly it all went to pot tonight. The last thing I want is a manager merry go round full of subpar English managers but perhaps for some that's preferable too.

Respectfully, what is forward thinking about putting a giant on and going 5 at the back after you score every game?

 

[To Bee Someone]

Was Nicolas Gonzalez the one we were linked to a few years back?

 

[Ghost]

I agree it ended up too defensive. I suspect he made the initial change to offset the impact of de paul and the momentum just kept shifting. All i am saying is it is very difficult to be brave and throw an attacker on to try and regain control.

I’d rather go out trying to be positive though.

 

[Irsky]

Spain would have been different gravy so its hard to say, and I know literally everyone says this every single time the Euro's and WC are on but...

I can't help but feel we had a real chance this time. The grit and determination showed (until the first Argentine goal) was absolutely unbelievable (Djed Spence in particular, take a bow my son!).

We really took the game to those ****s and showed fantastic opportunity coming forward. Bellingham and indeed Rogers did their part with Gordon scoring one of, if not the biggest goal of his life so far. However, once again, the substitutions made by the manager f*cked us over.

Its so so so disappointing to see a team who's showing so much promise and grind in the attack be forced into a negative and exposed formation by the manager.

Tuchal has a LOT of explaining to do before the nights ups (and indeed in the following days).

Gutted.... just completely gutted.

 

[LongLostBee]

Interesting Kane saying the suggestion from the bench was to keep going for the second goal.
I think, at a certain point, we need to blame the players not the manager.
I think we had an on-pitch leadership failure and bottled it.
It’s easier to sit back when it’s not going well than be brave and attack them back.

 

[Jam Jar]

Tuchel OUT.

 

[Banana]

England had Argentina on the ropes.

Landed a punch

Then covered up on the ropes and hopes not to be knocked out.


Crazy tactics.

 

[BeesManMax]

When it works against Mexico it’s great? We very nearly pulled it off but we didn’t . Heads high boys

 

[LostBee]

England had Argentina on the ropes.

Landed a punch

Then covered up on the ropes and hopes not to be knocked out.


Crazy tactics.

It was absolutely pathetic.

 

[LongLostBee]

Joe Hart seems to be saying similar now and suggesting Tuchel wanted to go for the second goal, but the players failed to execute instructions, and he then went ultra defensive as a result.

 

[Banana]

When it works against Mexico it’s great? We very nearly pulled it off but we didn’t . Heads high boys

It wasn't "great" against Mexico either. Being lucky is not "great"

 

[gbems92]

When it works against Mexico it’s great? We very nearly pulled it off but we didn’t . Heads high boys

Whole different set of circumstances

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Spain would have been different gravy so its hard to say, and I know literally everyone says this every single time the Euro's and WC are on but...

I can't help but feel we had a real chance this time. The grit and determination showed (until the first Argentine goal) was absolutely unbelievable (Djed Spence in particular, take a bow my son!).

We really took the game to those ****s and showed fantastic opportunity coming forward. Bellingham and indeed Rogers did their part with Gordon scoring one of, if not the biggest goal of his life so far. However, once again, the substitutions made by the manager f*cked us over.

Its so so so disappointing to see a team who's showing so much promise and grind in the attack be forced into a negative and exposed formation by the manager.

Tuchal has a LOT of explaining to do before the nights ups (and indeed in the following days).

Gutted.... just completely gutted.

Tuchel has a lot of packing to do hopefully. I'm not a fan, never have been.

 

[Superbeesensi]

Truly poor, so so negative and how the hell did we decide to go so deep so early…and if we are dropping that deep why take off all the forwards with pace….oh well, roll on some proper football in August…

 

[davebee]

I’d rather go out trying to be positive though.

Same. We are all used to supporting a club that is very forward thinking though. My point was simply that it is easy for us to sit here and complain about bravery, and it is entirely different when you have a lead against a world class team.

 

[Sheerwater Bee]

Best team won.

 

[Canterbee]

Respectfully, what is forward thinking about putting a giant on and going 5 at the back after you score every game?

Well I thought all of his substitution and changes throughout the majority of the tournament were spot on. Like his rotation of Madueke with Saka, or Rogers being introduced into the side today on the right for instance. As I said, it didn't exactly work out in the last half an hour but that's no reason to discard everything before that.

 

[jbee]

How many times did we let Messi take a corner short and then deliver from the half space? Brainless.

 

[LongLostBee]

Absolutely criminal defending for the Enzo Fernandes goal.
That’s not on Tuchel it’s 100% down to the players.
Acres of space in a lovely position to hit one and he can.

 

[Banana]

it is entirely different when you have a lead against a world class team.

Why is it?

when we took a lead against the world class Chelsea in the FA Cup at Griffin Park...at HT jmf said to me that we must continue to attack. Do you really think he was wrong looking at the outcome of that match and this match?

 

[Dribble chop]

After going one up, we backed off, they got the equaliser and went for it, they deserve it.

 

[Jezybee]

Joe Hart seems to be saying similar now and suggesting Tuchel wanted to go for the second goal, but the players failed to execute instructions, and he then went ultra defensive as a result.

Konsa for Gordon does not give the signal to your players of “Let’s go get a second, lads”

 

[Hippobee]

Interesting Kane saying the suggestion from the bench was to keep going for the second goal.
I think, at a certain point, we need to blame the players not the manager.
I think we had an on-pitch leadership failure and bottled it.
It’s easier to sit back when it’s not going well than be brave and attack them back.

I'm all for blaming the players. Too often in the PL the manager carries the can.

But Tuchel chose to have 6 defenders on. Difficult to go for a 2nd when there's hardly any attacking players on.

This is 100% on him.

 

[guilly]

Come on guys, look the positives - you won't have to see the likes of Pickford or Gordon as great lads anymore (and they were quite close to be your saviours!), and you won't have to suffer a football game with a 30 minute half time show.

Now in all seriousness, Tuchel really lost it with the changes, in the same way Southgate lost the Euros against Italy.

 

[LostBee]

Well I thought all of his substitution and changes throughout the majority of the tournament were spot on. Like his rotation of Madueke with Saka, or Rogers being introduced into the side today on the right for instance. As I said, it didn't exactly work out in the last half an hour but that's no reason to discard everything before that.

Fair enough, we are all entitled to our opinions.

I thought that was dark ages football from an "elite" manager though.

 

[LongLostBee]

Konsa for Gordon does not give the signal to your players of “Let’s go get a second, lads”

I'm all for blaming the players. Too often in the PL the manager carries the can.

But Tuchel chose to have 6 defenders on. Difficult to go for a 2nd when there's hardly any attacking players on.

This is 100% on him.

He’s suggesting that Tuchel tried to get them to go for the second. They failed to follow instructions and he decided to try and hold on instead.
Based on the appalling defending for the Enzo goal I suspect this might not be far wrong.
Whatever Tuchels instructions the players themselves fell apart long before the subs.