Full Time: England 1 (Gordon) Argentina 2

[Banana]

What I'd seriously like to know that, if we all know that going 6 at the back is the worst idea in the entire galaxy, then how come Tuchel doesn't know this.

It's completely bizarre

 

[Hullbee]

Donny at home

Difference there was I knew we would be challenging and growing the following season whatever happened in playoffs

 

[LostBee]

Argentina players entered the pitch with a banner stating the Falklands are Argentinian. Disqualify them

Nah.

I don't want us to go through on a technicallity.

We don't deserve it.

 

[Hullbee]

What I'd seriously like to know that, if we all know that going 6 at the back is the worst idea in the entire galaxy, then how come Tuchel doesn't know this.

It's completely bizarre

Bit like shearer saying we only have one sub left and promptly two come on

 

[longtimeagobee]

They’d both have been red carded for that surely?

Aw, fukkkkkit!!! It’s just a game of fukkkkiinn football, isn’t it?! Been here sooo many times now. I’m at Birkdale for the first day tomorrow and that’s what’s important now.

What time are you teeing off, I’ll keep an eye out

 

[aslan]

Nah.

I don't want us to go through on a technicallity.

We don't deserve it.

No we don't. Just give the trophy to Spain now.

 

[Beelieve!]

Tuchel is to blame
But he can’t be blamed for the last 60 years
We simply do not produce the players for international tournament football

 

[Hullbee]

Argentina players entered the pitch with a banner stating the Falklands are Argentinian. Disqualify them

Maybe there are but posession is key

 

[Beelieve!]

if you look at the stats very rarely does a team win the World Cup who were not pre tournament ranked in top 4

This is the highest we have been ranked going into a World Cup - 5

so no surprises we got Knocked out in the semifinals

 

[Banana]

if you look at the stats very rarely does a team win the World Cup who were not pre tournament ranked in top 4

Can you show us the stats please?

 

[Beelieve!]

Can you show us the stats please?

 

[Hullbee]

Can you show us the stats please?

Can’t we just trust him whilst pissed at this time of night

 

[jbee]

Tuchel is to blame
But he can’t be blamed for the last 60 years
We simply do not produce the players for international tournament football

We have the players. We have had them for about ten years now. Our mentality hasn't caught up.

 

[LostBee]

So very rarely = 1/3rd of the time then?

 

[Banana]

So 30% is "rare". You learn something new every day.

 

[olliebfc]

No, it's not too strong lol.

But international management is basically a sabbatical anyway compared to the daily grind of managing City, I'm sure

I don’t think guardiola is suited to international football. His style is so specific and precise, wouldn’t have enough time during international breaks to implement it.

 

[Beelieve!]

We have the players.

That Argentinian team is packed with technically gifted fast little f***ers

Why can’t we hold onto the ball under pressure??? The most frustrating issue with England

 

[Mikey Bee]

At the start of the tournament, if you'd said we would get to the semi-final, I would have bitten your hand off.

At the start of the tournament, if you'd said we would get to the semi-final and play Dan Burn up front, I'd have bitten my own hand off.

Without doubt, Argentina were the better side on the night but we had the momentum. Instead of pushing forward to get a second, Tommy Tickle went 5/6 at the back to hold on.

Fuming

 

[Beelieve!]

So 30% is "rare". You learn something new every day.

Yes ok fine
Rare is an exaggeration

70% of the time it’s won by a top 4 side, of which we haven’t been anyway leading up to a tournament

 

[jbee]

That Argentinian team is packed with technically gifted fast little f***ers

Why can’t we hold onto the ball under pressure??? The most frustrating issue with England

I agree that's the issue but I think its a mental block now. The "Golden Generation" mob genuinely had never developed the technical skills to play in tight spaces but this current lot can. They all came through heavily funded academies based on possession principles and play for some of the best teams in the world.

 

[Hullbee]

I agree that's the issue but I think it’s a mental block now. The "Golden Generation" mob genuinely had never developed the technical skills to play in tight spaces but this current lot can. They all came through heavily funded academies based on possession principles and play for some of the best teams in the world.

There just not the best no harm in admitting that

 

[ppobee]

Was it tuchel fault we had 10 players morris dancing when Messi took a quick corner.

Or

Was it is fault when two blokes on Messi were unable to stop a cross or squeeze him out

You're right, first goal was on the players - except they had been under the cosh for 15/20 mins by then and minds were scrambled. That's still on the manager.

 

[Beelieve!]

There just not the best no harm in admitting that

Yes agree
There is always someone better for the last 60 years

 

[Hullbee]

You're right, first goal was on the players - except they had been under the cosh for 15/20 mins by then and minds were scrambled. That's still on the manager.

Bellingham knew he and his mates had f***ed up!!! With there morris dancing… they needed someone over by the corner flag doing dark arts

 

[Hullbee]

Yes agree
There is always someone better for the last 60 years

I haven’t been on the planet for quite that long but point taken

 

[LongLostBee]

There just not the best no harm in admitting that

Mentally.
They all big themselves up for their harmony and team spirit etc.
Most of them are bottlers though.
The leadership in the second half on the pitch was basically non-existent.
The little scrappy street kids from Argentina that are half their size bullied them.
You could see it in their faces/eyes as they walked onto the pitch before the game even started.
Thats where it was really lost.

 

[Hullbee]

Mentally.
They all big themselves up for their harmony and team spirit etc.
Most of them are bottlers though.
The leadership in the second half on the pitch was basically non-existent.
The little scrappy street kids from Argentina that are half their size bullied them.
You could see it in their faces/eyes as they walked onto the pitch before the game even started.
Thats where it was really lost.

Yeah the harmony by the pool bullshit gets on my tits…. Let’s see the harmony and how string it is in defeat

 

[Guildford Bee]

That Argentinian team is packed with technically gifted fast little f***ers

Why can’t we hold onto the ball under pressure??? The most frustrating issue with England

Yes, we lack technically gifted midfielders and have done for as long as I can remember.

 

[roadealing]

Tuchel’s subs definitely f***ed it, but let’s be honest, we also created very little throughout the game and looked drab in every game we played prior.

Tuchel spoke a lot about picking the best team, but we’ve not played like a team other than when we parked the bus against Mexico and Norway.

The players haven’t looked comfortable with each other at all, constantly telling each other to do different things with the ball and stand in different places, make different runs. No cohesion between them.

But ultimately this England team has two genuinely world class, game changing players and the rest is average. Rice, Anderson, Konsa etc would look well out of place in that Spain team. So as annoying and predictable as this result is, it’s what England are

 

[Beelieve!]

Messi - still phenomenal at 39
Was better than most of our players again

 

[beeeehive]

Hard to believe what just happened, the worst tactical changes I’ve ever seen unless he was trying to make us lose.

 

[Beelieve!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/live/c77yp11e4r6t?post=asset%3A395f7256-ff55-4473-9a74-f90bc9d2efb4#post

Tuchel getting a deserved roasting by the journalist
Very good questions

 

[SpiderBee]

Plus side - wont be many in my local pub for the final.
I won't be watching the 3rd place thing though!

 

[mhead bee]

Tuchel is to blame
But he can’t be blamed for the last 60 years
We simply do not produce the players for international tournament football

In the last 5 tournaments we have 2 finals, 2 semi finals and a qtr final.

In the last 60 years, if you reverse the penalty shoot outs we have 2 finals and and several more quarter and semi finals.

Your theory is utterly disproven.

What has the last 4 finals and semi finals got in common? We either took the lead or equalised at a vital time, we’re on top and the door opened for us to go on and win, but on every occasion we took off forwards, left attackers on the bench and brought on defenders and invited beaten teams to win the game.

It is 100% down to the coaches, worse teams than us have won tournaments, many similar quality sides have won because they have gone for the jugular.

We could be one of the most successful sides in history had we won 7 penalty shoot outs or had braver coaches, the players are always there.

 

[AlwaysBees]

Just reminded me of the Leeds home game, oh 1 up let’s bring Collins on and 5at the back which was great until Leeds scored with in a minute and should have won the game!! We know and Keith knows 5 at the back don’t F—king work!!!

 

[Beelieve!]

In the last 5 tournaments we have 2 finals, 2 semi finals and a qtr final.

In the last 60 years, if you reverse the penalty shoot outs we have 2 finals and and several more quarter and semi finals.

Your theory is utterly disproven.

What has the last 4 finals and semi finals got in common? We either took the lead or equalised at a vital time, we’re on top and the door opened for us to go on and win, but on every occasion we took off forwards, left attackers on the bench and brought on defenders and invited beaten teams to win the game.

It is 100% down to the coaches, worse teams than us have won tournaments, many similar quality sides have won because they have gone for the jugular.

We could be one of the most successful sides in history had we won 7 penalty shoot outs or had braver coaches, the players are always there.

So for 60 years we have got the coach wrong?
Their mentality is wrong? We have had English, Swedish Italian, German coaches. Coaches that have won at club level, others that have not won anything. We have had young coaches, and very experienced coaches.

We have tried everything but come up short. Why?
Simply there is always someone better than us

Still doesn’t excuse Tuchels tactics at the end.

But the best team won - again

 

[BeesBloke]

How much time in between games and recovery sessions are dedicated to tactical formations? The Problem with suddenly putting an extra man in at CB is that for the first 70 mins two CB’s have been shuttling across each knowing who is picking up who and keeping a set distance between themselves. Introduce a third CB and the dynamics chance, now CB 1 has to move further to his left, CB 2 now is in the centre and the sub CB is far right.
Second goal came from free header because the the CB who would have been covered that area is now too central and the sub Konsa is too far right marking absolutely nobody.
Bringing on a third CB often just leads to more confusion when defending.

 

[mhead bee]

Tuchel’s subs definitely f***ed it, but let’s be honest, we also created very little throughout the game and looked drab in every game we played prior.

Tuchel spoke a lot about picking the best team, but we’ve not played like a team other than when we parked the bus against Mexico and Norway.

The players haven’t looked comfortable with each other at all, constantly telling each other to do different things with the ball and stand in different places, make different runs. No cohesion between them.

But ultimately this England team has two genuinely world class, game changing players and the rest is average. Rice, Anderson, Konsa etc would look well out of place in that Spain team. So as annoying and predictable as this result is, it’s what England are

We don’t produce the players other countries seem to, we also don’t have enough Jude Bellingham mentalities.

I said a qtr final would be a great truly out there, but the reason I feel sick is once again we had the upper hand and decided to goes backs to the wall.

We have lost 2 finals and a semi final doing this, why not at least try to win, try to get a second, at least lose whilst trying to win. We have thrown away 4 tournaments by being cowardly.

That isn’t because we don’t have enough jinky little players, it is because we have had 2 coaches who think the same tactic that loses games every time is still the way to go.

 

[mhead bee]

So for 60 years we have got the coach wrong?
Their mentality is wrong? We have had English, Swedish Italian, German coaches. Coaches that have won at club level, others that have not won anything. We have had young coaches, and very experienced coaches.

We have tried everything but come up short. Why?
Simply there is always someone better than us

Still doesn’t excuse Tuchels tactics at the end.

But the best team won - again

No, for 60 years we have lost penalty shoot outs and the last 5 tournaments we have applied the wrong tactics.

You don’t get to two out of 3 WC semi finals and two Euro finals because your players aren’t good enough.

 

[AlwaysBees]

So I hope Keith sees how 5 at the back later in the game really never works top teams love it when they are behind

 

[Beelated]

Tuchel’s subs definitely f***ed it, but let’s be honest, we also created very little throughout the game and looked drab in every game we played prior.

Tuchel spoke a lot about picking the best team, but we’ve not played like a team other than when we parked the bus against Mexico and Norway.

The players haven’t looked comfortable with each other at all, constantly telling each other to do different things with the ball and stand in different places, make different runs. No cohesion between them.

But ultimately this England team has two genuinely world class, game changing players and the rest is average. Rice, Anderson, Konsa etc would look well out of place in that Spain team. So as annoying and predictable as this result is, it’s what England are

An honest assessment that I agree with.

It was difficult to see any real synergy between the players and very little, if any, semblance of training ground planning of patterns of play. Not just in tonight’s game, but throughout the tournament. Having said that, there were some very good individual performances in each game that we played which got us the results we needed.

It’s very easy to criticise after being frustrated by a performance where, for whatever reason, we succumbed to the opposition from a winning position.

However, when the dust settles in the next 24hrs (to use Thomas Frank’s maxim) I think, ironic as it may seem, we can be very proud of the achievements by the England team over the past couple of decades; a team that has constantly done well at the international tournaments to reach semifinals and finals which is so different for those of us who remember the drubbings we regularly received as we struggled to even qualify from the group stages.

The next international competition is the Nations Cup that starts at the end of September. Who will be the manager and who will be in the squad? We will have to wait and see.

 

[AlwaysBees]

An honest assessment that I agree with.

It was difficult to see any real synergy between the players and very little, if any, semblance of training ground planning of patterns of play. Not just in tonight’s game, but throughout the tournament. Having said that, there were some very good individual performances in each game that we played which got us the results we needed.

It’s very easy to criticise after being frustrated by a performance where, for whatever reason, we succumbed to the opposition from a winning position.

However, when the dust settles in the next 24hrs (to use Thomas Frank’s maxim) I think, ironic as it may seem, we can be very proud of the achievements by the England team over the past couple of decades; a team that has constantly done well at the international tournaments to reach semifinals and finals which is so different for those of us who remember the drubbings we regularly received as we struggled to even qualify from the group stages.

The next international competition is the Nations Cup that starts at the end of September. Who will be the manager and who will be in the squad? We will have to wait and see.

Keith I think has moved us on maybe we need to move on from the Southgate and Tuchel safe mode to win something

 

[IGYBee]

In the last 5 tournaments we have 2 finals, 2 semi finals and a qtr final.

In the last 60 years, if you reverse the penalty shoot outs we have 2 finals and and several more quarter and semi finals.

Your theory is utterly disproven.

What has the last 4 finals and semi finals got in common? We either took the lead or equalised at a vital time, we’re on top and the door opened for us to go on and win, but on every occasion we took off forwards, left attackers on the bench and brought on defenders and invited beaten teams to win the game.

It is 100% down to the coaches, worse teams than us have won tournaments, many similar quality sides have won because they have gone for the jugular.

We could be one of the most successful sides in history had we won 7 penalty shoot outs or had braver coaches, the players are always there.

Tuchel should be sacked immediately, yes, but the players are not "always there". We have not even one world class player. Maybe JB. England were average the whole tournament and I honestly think Bees would have beaten what is equivalent to last seasons Spurs side.

 

[IGYBee]

No, for 60 years we have lost penalty shoot outs and the last 5 tournaments we have applied the wrong tactics.

You don’t get to two out of 3 WC semi finals and two Euro finals because your players aren’t good enough.

Sorry to break it to you- the players are not and rarely have been, good enough.

That said TT should be relieved of his duties immediately. FA should show some balls. Obviously no one cares a jot about the dead rubber game or whatever it is. Let the assistant manage the friendly and play the second string.

Oh, and Pickford should have saved both those goals.

 

[SpiderBee]

Sorry to break it to you- the players are not and rarely have been, good enough.

That said TT should be relieved of his duties immediately. FA should show some balls. Obviously no one cares a jot about the dead rubber game or whatever it is. Let the assistant manage the friendly and play the second string.

Oh, and Pickford should have saved both those goals.

One thing I do agree with you is this. Many of those on show in the USA wont be in the next 2 tournaments (I hope)!

 

[SpiderBee]

Did it before and fined £20k - what is the point? - World Cup 2026: Argentina could face disciplinary action for displaying Falklands banner after beating England

 

[brentfordfc4ever]

We were playing pretty well and then 'that' happened. I'm not sure I've seen a team shut up shop in that way before. The tactic was totally unacceptable from an experienced Tuchel. Lef the players to hang out and dry.

I thought Kane was awful. He's no spring chicken and this was probably a game too far. It needed an Ollie Watkins to press hard and to take us up the pitch.

I'm so disappointed. Especially as I'm in Majorca from this evening.

Tuchel should leave with immediate affect.

 

[Untouchable]

Argentina hit the post. Ball comes out. Spence gets there first. Messi fouled Spence. Argentina score 8 seconds later in the very next phase of play.

This is the contact. I’m not interested in conspiracy theory nonsense - can anyone explain why this shouldn’t have been ruled out by VAR? I reckon that’s getting reviewed every time in the PL.

 

[Bee1895]

England has a history of losing clutch games when being in the lead for 30 yrs now.
It also is a mentality thing.

 

[SOTGBee]

I didn’t want to watch the last 20 minutes of normal time maybe we can be the third team after that game I am probably not going to watch