Rail Connections for Lionel Road (West London Orbital Link)

[Simon C]

Yeah but without the DLR connections and extension and more stations do you think all of that would have been built?

I don't think the presence of the DLR drove the regeneration of the London docklands area

 

[Hullbee]

I don't think the presence of the DLR drove the regeneration of the London docklands area

It was one of the key elements in the regeneration of docklands and other east London sh*tholes!!! Without DLR there would have been limited regeneration!! The Olympics added further stimulus from the DLR base

 

[Simon C]

It was one of the key elements in the regeneration of docklands and other east London sh*tholes!!! Without DLR there would have been limited regeneration!! The Olympics added further stimulus from the DLR base

Yes but it didn't happen because the DLR was built first

 

[Hullbee]

Yes but it didn't happen because the DLR was built first

There are many DLR stations that were built few residential properties within walking distance within 5-10 years of the station becoming operational there were thousands of flats within 5-10 minute walk. You really think all of those car-less developments would have been built with DLR providing access to London? Same with the overground when that was improved in east London. Cross-rail also proves that transport hubs and improvement to transport options leds to regeneration.

Anyway you believe whatever you want to. If this connection to west London sh*t holes (not Isleworth) goes ahead I am factoring in a uplift of my humble abode and opportunity to spend more money in travelling around

 

[Hullbee]

Not sure how they are going to run all these trains using existing lines but no doubt maintaining the lateness and cancellations we have become a custom to

Read more: bit.ly/Heathrow-Southern-Railway

Hounslow seeking to take Doncaster as the countries biggest rail interchange sh*thole

 

[Jay Bee]

They used to say that there would be no demand when DLR was extended sure enough the demand cane

After building 1 million flats and 60 tower blocks of offices.

I presume Old Oak Common is Canary Wharf in this scenario. Plans for lots of offices and flats there, it will not be Canary Wharf 2 in a hurry of course.
Connecting people to that development and transport hub from north and south and without needing to lay new track. Also providing a link for those places to the Lizzie Line, Great Western line and HS2.

...No I'm not saying it's definitely happening! On those terms there's surely a stronger case than there was for say a service between Gospel Oak and Barking.

 

[rebus]

I presume Old Oak Common is Canary Wharf in this scenario. Plans for lots of offices and flats there, it will not be Canary Wharf 2 in a hurry of course.
Connecting people to that development and transport hub from north and south and without needing to lay new track. Also providing a link for those places to the Lizzie Line, Great Western line and HS2.

...No I'm not saying it's definitely happening! On those terms there's surely a stronger case than there was for say a service between Gospel Oak and Barking.

Correct.

 

[Jay Bee]

Not sure how they are going to run all these trains using existing lines but no doubt maintaining the lateness and cancellations we have become a custom to

Read more: bit.ly/Heathrow-Southern-Railway

Hounslow seeking to take Doncaster as the countries biggest rail interchange sh*thole

The idea of another rail link to Heathrow from the South Western line has been kicked around for many years, well before the 2017 date mentioned in the article
see e.g.

Heathrow Airtrack - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I recalled reading that level crossings were a major bugbear for increasing the number of services on these lines and it's elaborated on that page - any requirement to build replacement bridges/tunnels would be another large construction cost.

 

[Banana]

I presume Old Oak Common is Canary Wharf in this scenario. Plans for lots of offices and flats there, it will not be Canary Wharf 2 in a hurry of course.
Connecting people to that development and transport hub from north and south and without needing to lay new track. Also providing a link for those places to the Lizzie Line, Great Western line and HS2.

...No I'm not saying it's definitely happening! On those terms there's surely a stronger case than there was for say a service between Gospel Oak and Barking.

The line from Gospel Oak to Barking has existed for ages

According to Wikipedia: "The line was extended southeast by 4.5 kilometres (2.8 mi) from the terminus at Barking to serve the Barking Riverside regeneration area, a brownfield site with permission for around 10,800 new homes"

 

[Jay Bee]

The line from Gospel Oak to Barking has existed for ages

According to Wikipedia: "The line was extended southeast by 4.5 kilometres (2.8 mi) from the terminus at Barking to serve the Barking Riverside regeneration area, a brownfield site with permission for around 10,800 new homes"

But this line also already exists, surely? It's just not used by passenger services.

 

[Banana]

But this line also already exists, surely? It's just not used by passenger services.

The service has existed for ages.

 

[Jay Bee]

The service has existed for ages.

Fair enough, maybe I didn't pick the best example.

Nevertheless even that was a line "from nowhere to nowhere" without a landmark office development along the route and TFL have made it a success by investing in new infrastructure (electrifying the route) and doubling service frequency. I can't imagine it was obvious that would work in 2007. They somehow found £327m to add the extension to Barking Riverside too, though that puts the £6.6m of funding for this so far into perspective.

 

[Banana]

Fair enough, maybe I didn't pick the best example.

Nevertheless even that was a line "from nowhere to nowhere" without a landmark office development along the route and TFL have made it a success by investing in new infrastructure (electrifying the route) and doubling service frequency. I can't imagine it was obvious that would work in 2007. They somehow found £327m to add the extension to Barking Riverside too, though that puts the £6.6m of funding for this so far into perspective.

10,700 NEW homes

You could say that there will be similar in Old Oak Common. None of those will want to go to Hounslow or Brent Cross. They will have bought for Liz Line or HS2.

 

[PhilE]

A good summary by a train enthusiast about the enhancements that would be required. Makes a point that the section from Acton to Lionel Rd cannot be electrified so train would need batteries for that section.


View: https://youtu.be/qZkVoMWUrgM?si=O3q8uh6Njk3HfFAY

 

[Banana]

A good summary by a train enthusiast about the enhancements that would be required. Makes a point that the section from Acton to Lionel Rd cannot be electrified so train would need batteries for that section.


View: https://youtu.be/qZkVoMWUrgM?si=O3q8uh6Njk3HfFAY

He starts off saying it's impossible to get from NW to W London. Has he tried the Mildmay line?

 

[rebus]

He starts off saying it's impossible to get from NW to W London. Has he tried the Mildmay line?

He said “painfully slow, often involving buses” - didn’t mention the word impossible at all!

 

[Banana]

He said “painfully slow, often involving buses” - didn’t mention the word impossible at all!

He omitted to mention the Malmay line which takes you from North West to West London. One can also get to Willesden Junction (on said line) from anywhere from there to Watford.

Not that anyone wants to go from NW to W London in any case, of course.

If they do then I've got a much cheaper idea. Build a station where the Mildmay line intersects the Hounslow loop line.

Plenty of space there.

 

[rebus]

He omitted to mention the Malmay line which takes you from North West to West London. One can also get to Willesden Junction (on said line) from anywhere from there to Watford.

Not that anyone wants to go from NW to W London in any case, of course.

If they do then I've got a much cheaper idea. Build a station where the Mildmay line intersects the Hounslow loop line.

Plenty of space there.


View attachment 64832

He mentions the Mildmay line at 1min 56!

As you know it involves either walking or a bus if travelling from the different destinations. There’s no room for an interchange show in on your map and good luck getting a compulsory purchase order in Chiswick for the surrounding land.

You may actually want to watch the video again. He does make a pretty good case for it. I’m sure I’ll be in a box by the time it’s built.

 

[Jakalo]

He omitted to mention the Malmay line which takes you from North West to West London. One can also get to Willesden Junction (on said line) from anywhere from there to Watford.

Not that anyone wants to go from NW to W London in any case, of course.

If they do then I've got a much cheaper idea. Build a station where the Mildmay line intersects the Hounslow loop line.

Plenty of space there.


View attachment 64832

Strand on the Green Junction! I’m keen just for the reaction on ChiswickW4.com.

 

[Banana]

Strand on the Green Junction! I’m keen just for the reaction on ChiswickW4.com.

They love travelling to Harsleden and Feltham. Otherwise is the bus (probably with a change)

 

[Banana]

Closes 3 level crossings
Needs 4 tracking at Acton Wells (virtually impossible)
Needs complete resignalling - not covered in budget

These appeared to be 3 years ago and the end date then was 2034 and very little progress has been made on his gantt chart...


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9xInvVNqWM

 

[JANORAK]

I’ve actually taken the bus (487/187) from South Harrow to West Hampstead in a Tube strike. It took about 2 hours, mind, and probably explains why they split the route some years ago at Harlesden and Willesden!

 

[SpiderBee]

I’ve actually taken the bus (487/187) from South Harrow to West Hampstead in a Tube strike. It took about 2 hours, mind, and probably explains why they split the route some years ago at Harlesden and Willesden!

The 187 is one of the weirdest routes in London. Remember it as a kid.

 

[Bees Mode]

Wonder if this line might also help to take some pressure off the North Circular. Having had to get the 112 bus a few times for similar journeys, the traffic tends to be pretty awful (matching the scenery).

 

[hobbsy]

Consultation and feedback now open.

So @Banana can write in and say stop wasting everyone's time and money as it won't happen.

West London Orbital

Find out about proposals for the West London Orbital, a new London Overground service designed to improve connections across west and northwest London. View plans for new and upgraded stations, understand the potential benefits and impacts, and share your feedback.

haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk

 

[Banana]

Consultation and feedback now open.

So @Banana can write in and say stop wasting everyone's time and money as it won't happen.

West London Orbital

Find out about proposals for the West London Orbital, a new London Overground service designed to improve connections across west and northwest London. View plans for new and upgraded stations, understand the potential benefits and impacts, and share your feedback.

haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk

It’ll never happen!!!

 

[Jay Bee]

View: https://x.com/CLondoner92/status/2102701938722644294


TFL press release

Have your say on proposals for a new London Overground rail route

PN-238 First consultation now open on proposals for a new London Overground rail service linking Hendon and Hounslow New 18.5km route would connect communities in north and northwest London, improve access to major transport hubs including Old Oak Common, and support new jobs and homes...

tfl-newsroom.prgloo.com

Consultation which runs from today until 18th November

West London Orbital

Find out about proposals for the West London Orbital, a new London Overground service designed to improve connections across west and northwest London. View plans for new and upgraded stations, understand the potential benefits and impacts, and share your feedback.

haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk

Edit - written before Hobbsy's post

I'm going to write and say my friend Trevor has a lot of faith in the project

 

[Houghton Bee]

 

[Banana]

View: https://x.com/CLondoner92/status/2102701938722644294


TFL press release

Have your say on proposals for a new London Overground rail route

PN-238 First consultation now open on proposals for a new London Overground rail service linking Hendon and Hounslow New 18.5km route would connect communities in north and northwest London, improve access to major transport hubs including Old Oak Common, and support new jobs and homes...

tfl-newsroom.prgloo.com

Consultation which runs from today until 18th November

West London Orbital

Find out about proposals for the West London Orbital, a new London Overground service designed to improve connections across west and northwest London. View plans for new and upgraded stations, understand the potential benefits and impacts, and share your feedback.

haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk

Edit - written before Hobbsy's post

I'm going to write and say my friend Trevor has a lot of faith in the project

Ask them where the money is going to come from? And where all the jobs are.

Crowd management after a game will be a right laugh too. They’re probably have to shut it post game à la Gunnersbury

 

[Jay Bee]

Ask them where the money is going to come from? And where all the jobs are.

Crowd management after a game will be a right laugh too. They’re probably have to shut it post game à la Gunnersbury

Crowd management will be easy for a line nobody wants to use

 

[Banana]

Crowd management will be easy for a line nobody wants to use

It’ll be duplicating a line that people do use to Hounslow. Except they’ll have to gamble on which station to go to. Cannot wait.

 

[GuyBee]

Be very useful for me, living on the Met/Chiltern line as I do (outside the M25)

 

[cheshirebee]

Looking at google maps it is ‘simply’ bringing back to life an old line. So all the cuttings, bridges etc already exist. Still not cheap I know, but more doable than building from scratch and getting land through CPO’s etc.
Maybe

 

[hobbsy]

Looking at google maps it is ‘simply’ bringing back to life an old line. So all the cuttings, bridges etc already exist. Still not cheap I know, but more doable than building from scratch and getting land through CPO’s etc.
Maybe

It's not as simple as that

 

[Hullbee]

It's not as simple as that

If you throw it all into Claude it is

 

[bee1958]

HS2 will reach Euston in 2043:

Train of pain! HS2 railway now won't be finished until 2043 at the earliest

Homes and businesses in Camden have already been flattened

www.camdennewjournal.co.uk

When will this project complete? 2050? A long way away anyway.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Handy for the B team, we'll be playing in front of 50000 at Twickenham by the time this is ready.

 

[cheshirebee]

It's not as simple as that

As simple as what ?
I was just saying it’s less complicated/costly than starting from scratch.

 

[Banana]

Looking at google maps it is ‘simply’ bringing back to life an old line. So all the cuttings, bridges etc already exist. Still not cheap I know, but more doable than building from scratch and getting land through CPO’s etc.
Maybe

 

[Jay Bee]

Looking at google maps it is ‘simply’ bringing back to life an old line. So all the cuttings, bridges etc already exist. Still not cheap I know, but more doable than building from scratch and getting land through CPO’s etc.
Maybe

I agree, it must be easier than starting from scratch. No-one is getting a £10bn budget to tunnel across London to link these places up.

But there are still a lot of hurdles to overcome. Upgrading capacity where needed (widening lines may be effectively as tricky a new line in terms of complexity) finding and buying sites for platforms and station buildings, getting local authority buy in for planning permission, getting neighbours permission to run more a lot trains near their homes might be an issue too.

 

[Jay Bee]

Does say not operating till late 2029.

Won't have even had a consultation by then.

@hobbsy oh ye of little faith

 

[hobbsy]

I agree, it must be easier than starting from scratch. No-one is getting a £10bn budget to tunnel across London to link these places up.

But there are still a lot of hurdles to overcome. Upgrading capacity where needed (widening lines may be effectively as tricky a new line in terms of complexity) finding and buying sites for platforms and station buildings, getting local authority buy in for planning permission, getting neighbours permission to run more a lot trains near their homes might be an issue too.

Not to mention, signalling, electrification etc.

 

[hobbsy]

@hobbsy oh ye of little faith

They need a second consultation though

Subject to making this progress on securing funding, at the end of 2027 we will decide whether to prepare a Transport and Works Act Order application which, if successful, would give us the necessary consents and powers to construct and operate the WLO.

In this case, we would hold another public consultation as part of this next stage of work, where we would set out our final proposals in more detail, including the impacts associated with construction and operation of the WLO.

 

[Jay Bee]

They need a second consultation though

Ah so you were talking about the consultation, not a consultation...

 

[hobbsy]

Ah so you were talking about the consultation, not a consultation...

Probably

 

[Banana]

They need a second consultation though

It'll never happen!

 

[Banana]

5 years later and we're at the (first) consultation.

 

[hanworthbee]

We will all be dead on the gpg before a train pulls into Lionel road station

 

[AB]

We will all be dead on the gpg before a train pulls into Lionel road station

The demographic on here is not the youngest!

 

[N5022N122]

Maybe they could ring fence the funding of the station at least and through an enabling scheme where they give us access and the land for where the station would go and permissions and we would build and integrate it into a massive North stand extension. Money upfront first and built regardless of if the line gets used. Will be a lot easier to do if almost no trains using it.