Rail Connections for Lionel Road (West London Orbital Link)

[Bee(h)Iver]

We will all be dead on the gpg before a train pulls into Lionel road station

I’m not dying until we have won the Champions League. Or paid off the student loan I’ve just taken out for OU. And I still won’t ever see a train at Lionel Road station.

 

[w7 bee]

WLO is the most likely to happen of the TfL extension schemes wsy ahead of the likes of BLE , Cross Rail 2 , but needs a big injection of Gov funding or private investment as TfL not got the funds......but a while ago people said TeX , unlikely now its a goer.

 

[hobbsy]

Nimbys are starting


View: https://x.com/BassamMahfouz/status/2102719060970496406

 

[Banana]

Nimbys are starting


View: https://x.com/BassamMahfouz/status/2102719060970496406

Yep. Another reason it won't happen.

Stupid threatening to close that crossing when there are plenty in Barnes etc that hardly ever open.

 

[Ashford Bees]

Still waiting for the mono rail link to Heathrow !

 

[Banana]

His local geography is pretty bad. There's three level crossing and one of them is in Isleworth, not on the Piccadilly Line

Impacts on level crossings

You can find out more here about which crossings maybe affected, why the closures could be needed, the potential impacts from the closures and new access arrangements.Level Crossings – possible need for closuresWe may need to close three level crossings if the WLO were to go ahead:Churchfield...

haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk

 

[RAF_Patto]

I wonder if the club will press them to extend it closer to Twickenham; for our 2030 European Super League Championship.

 

[Bee(h)Iver]

I was in Japan earlier this year. They have multiple level crossings in major cities and they just work. Really well. A couple south of Shibuya station are really busy with both road traffic and trains every few minutes but it’s coordinated perfectly.

Of course they don’t have the issue of morons trying to get through when the barriers are halfway down. Maybe we miss out on a proper infrastructure because we don’t deserve one…

 

[Simon C]

View attachment 69299


His local geography is pretty bad. There's three level crossing and one of them is in Isleworth, not on the Piccadilly Line

Impacts on level crossings

You can find out more here about which crossings maybe affected, why the closures could be needed, the potential impacts from the closures and new access arrangements.Level Crossings – possible need for closuresWe may need to close three level crossings if the WLO were to go ahead:Churchfield...

haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk

FFS this bloke will have his freedom pass by the time this is available.

 

[Hullbee]

FFS this bloke will have his freedom pass by the time this is available.

Doesn’t matter when your an opinionated nimby

 

[Banana]

Of course they don’t have the issue of morons trying to get through when the barriers are halfway down.

Yes. Japanese are very compliant when it comes to such things. Dave in his white van after waiting 10 mins nearly not so I would have thought.

Anyway. 11 minutes in a peak hour isn't the end of the world. People will soon adjust their behaviours.

The one in wandsworth is a nightmare. 43 mins a hour it's down IIRC. I think I got hit on the head with a barrier once!

 

[Bee(h)Iver]

Yes. Japanese are very compliant when it comes to such things. Dave in his white van after waiting 10 mins nearly not so I would have thought.

Anyway. 11 minutes in a peak hour isn't the end of the world. People will soon adjust their behaviours.

The one in wandsworth is a nightmare. 43 mins a hour it's down IIRC. I think I got hit on the head with a barrier once!

Yeah but it’s only down that long because they have wider margins of error in this country because they know people will try and jump the barrier. Once the gates are down in Japan you can be pretty sure the train will be along within 20 seconds

 

[hobbsy]

Yeah but it’s only down that long because they have wider margins of error in this country because they know people will try and jump the barrier. Once the gates are down in Japan you can be pretty sure the train will be along within 20 seconds

And it also depends on where the signals are, the one near me in New Malden is dead in between New Malden and Norbiton stations, if either of those stations has a Off signal the crossing will be down, even if the train hasn't been dispatched from the station.

 

[cheshirebee]

Maybe they could ring fence the funding of the station at least and through an enabling scheme where they give us access and the land for where the station would go and permissions and we would build and integrate it into a massive North stand extension. Money upfront first and built regardless of if the line gets used. Will be a lot easier to do if almost no trains using it.

Extend the North Stand you say…..

 

[jlove]

Maybe they could ring fence the funding of the station at least and through an enabling scheme where they give us access and the land for where the station would go and permissions and we would build and integrate it into a massive North stand extension. Money upfront first and built regardless of if the line gets used. Will be a lot easier to do if almost no trains using it.

That's the only way another tier can be added to the North Stand (and that would require total demolition of the existing stand). The new stand could then be over the rail line and have the station built-in underneath. Even if it was feasible and the finances were available, it would mean reduced capacity for a couple of seasons.

Probably, it would cheaper to build elsewhere.

 

[N5022N122]

As a qualified mechanical engineer I bet I could create a solution that means the main structure could be built with minimal disruption to the trains track as long as the land north of the track where the foundations would go has sufficient access. Give me a big enough lever and I can move the world!

 

[Banana]

As a qualified mechanical engineer I bet I could create a solution that means the main structure could be built with minimal disruption to the trains track as long as the land north of the track where the foundations would go has sufficient access. Give me a big enough lever and I can move the world!

I bet you could too. But you can't because Network Rail won't let you. There's a reason the North Stand was moved 6m from the railway boundary...

 

[Bee(h)Iver]

Looking at the layout there it probably would be feasible to extend the north stand over the railway and integrating the station into the structure. Access to the new seats would be via the existing car park and the Sega building would probably have to come down.
But the cost would not be worth the 5-6k seats it would add, even if there was a row of boxes between the existing and current stand. I’d rather the money was spent on players…

 

[Jay Bee]

I suggest expanding the north stand is even more unlikely than this rail project getting off the ground, and building a station at Lionel Road will mean the opposite to what people are hoping i.e. there is absolutely no chance of the stand ever being expanded around/over a working station.

 

[jlove]

Looking at the layout there it probably would be feasible to extend the north stand over the railway and integrating the station into the structure. Access to the new seats would be via the existing car park and the Sega building would probably have to come down.
But the cost would not be worth the 5-6k seats it would add, even if there was a row of boxes between the existing and current stand. I’d rather the money was spent on players…

I think the old Sega building is already earmarked for development, although I don't believe the planning permission for 4 or 5 tower blocks has been approved. BFC put in an objection re overdevelopment early on. There was a sweetener that the old Brentford Fountain would be relocated and incorporated in a public space.

As you write, the cost per additional seat would be prohibitive and would never be recovered.

All pie in the sky.

 

[Banana]

Looking at the layout there it probably would be feasible to extend the north stand over the railway and integrating the station into the structure. A

Here's what that would entail

1. Air rights. A lease from Network Rail for the airrights. A commercial negotation and NR will be dealing with a PL club and will negotiate accordingly
2. A deck spanning the railway. Would need piers next to the line and they must be designed to survive a detrailment since as freight trains use that route.
3. The span over the railway will be treated as a tunnel. That brings in extra requirements for fire, smoke venting, lighting and evacuation for train passengers, which add cost and complicate the design.
4. You want a station in a tunnel? That requires fire proof rolling stock which would otherwise not be required for this service. It also requires the station to be permentatly manned with enough staff to conduct an evacuation within a specified time period. It also means that the station has to be built to standards far higher than an open air station
5. Possessions. Lifting material over the track can only happen during line closures. These are booked 12-18 months in advance and there are only so many available. You can't close that freight line and tell companies needing those deliveries "hard cheese, Brentford have decided to install some beams today".
6. I refer you once again to Old Trafford (a far larger club with far larger resources). They have never built over the railway behind the South Stand. Rather than deciding to "meet that challenge" they decided to build a whole new stadium instead.
7. Commercially the rebuild of the Anfield Road end added 7,000 seats for £80m - and there was NO RAILWAY involved (plus it was in Liverpool as opposed to the greatest city in the world). Let's say this costs us £100m (wildly understated). How many more seats is it going to give us? 5,000 extra at a massive high guess (the North Stand is currently 3,000). Each seat is therefore £20,000. That's a lot a seasons' STs before the club has made its money back.
8. Finance. Someone has to come up with £100m
9. Construction. Look at Villa where they've closed a stand for an entire season just to rebuild it. In a site with no railway or other critical infrastructure. The North Stand would have to be demolished and closed for 2-3 seasons.

Then you've also got

• Kew Gardens World Hertitage Site. A taller North Stand would certainly bring scurtiny
• All those neighbouring flats that were built to fund the building of the Gtech. That's lots and lots of NIMBYs.

So yes, whilst anything is possible given enough time and resources. Some things require too much time and too many resources to make them commercially viable.

 

[daddybee]

Here's what that would entail

1. Air rights. A lease from Network Rail for the airrights. A commercial negotation and NR will be dealing with a PL club and will negotiate accordingly
2. A deck spanning the railway. Would need piers next to the line and they must be designed to survive a detrailment since as freight trains use that route.
3. The span over the railway will be treated as a tunnel. That brings in extra requirements for fire, smoke venting, lighting and evacuation for train passengers, which add cost and complicate the design.
4. You want a station in a tunnel? That requires fire proof rolling stock which would otherwise not be required for this service. It also requires the station to be permentatly manned with enough staff to conduct an evacuation within a specified time period. It also means that the station has to be built to standards far higher than an open air station
5. Possessions. Lifting material over the track can only happen during line closures. These are booked 12-18 months in advance and there are only so many available. You can't close that freight line and tell companies needing those deliveries "hard cheese, Brentford have decided to install some beams today".
6. I refer you once again to Old Trafford (a far larger club with far larger resources). They have never built over the railway behind the South Stand. Rather than deciding to "meet that challenge" they decided to build a whole new stadium instead.
7. Commercially the rebuild of the Anfield Road end added 7,000 seats for £80m - and there was NO RAILWAY involved (plus it was in Liverpool as opposed to the greatest city in the world). Let's say this costs us £100m (wildly understated). How many more seats is it going to give us? 5,000 extra at a massive high guess (the North Stand is currently 3,000). Each seat is therefore £20,000. That's a lot a seasons' STs before the club has made its money back.
8. Finance. Someone has to come up with £100m
9. Construction. Look at Villa where they've closed a stand for an entire season just to rebuild it. In a site with no railway or other critical infrastructure. The North Stand would have to be demolished and closed for 2-3 seasons.

Then you've also got

• Kew Gardens World Hertitage Site. A taller North Stand would certainly bring scurtiny
• All those neighbouring flats that were built to fund the building of the Gtech. That's lots and lots of NIMBYs.

So yes, whilst anything is possible given enough time and resources. Some things require too much time and too many resources to make them commercially viable.

So do you think there’s a slim chance it might not happen then?

 

[jlove]

What worries me most is that we've got another 2 weeks before the Aston Villa pre-game thread livens up...

 

[N5022N122]

So where are we going to build the next larger stadium nearer the roundabout land?

 

[Jay Bee]

So where are we going to build the next larger stadium nearer the roundabout land?

Milton Keynes? I think that's been done and it wasn't popular

 

[Hullbee]

There's a reason the North Stand was moved 6m from the railway boundary...

London Borough of Hounslow “planners”

 

[Hullbee]

So where are we going to build the next larger stadium nearer the roundabout land?

 

[ruislip bee]

Got to say I like our stadium and where it is. Wouldn't want to move again and the size seems just about right for us. There's a parcel of land where Griffin Park used to be but I don't suppose that would get us to 20,000 and the neighbours are bound to complain now!

 

[Banana]

Got to say I like our stadium and where it is. Wouldn't want to move again and the size seems just about right for us. There's a parcel of land where Griffin Park used to be but I don't suppose that would get us to 20,000 and the neighbours are bound to complain now!

Yes from a perfectly selfish PoV, I don't want to go to a massive stadium with it taking hours to get in or get away.

Why fans want a bigger stadium, I'll never know. We're watching PL football close-up. Who wants to watch from Row ZZZZZ of White Hart Lane?

 

[Bee(h)Iver]

I’m perfectly happy with the gtech, and especially happy with my view from the north stand.
I’m also bloody desperate for this international break to end…

 

[PhilE]

View: https://youtu.be/Jodk41nuxls?is=D_TfuoMGuzWENdIu

 

[Canterbee]

View: https://youtu.be/Jodk41nuxls?is=D_TfuoMGuzWENdIu

Beat me to it by a minute! Jago is always worth a watch for anyone with the faintest interest in trains or in their accompanying infrastructure.

 

[N5022N122]

Just went on Google.maps steet view of the area around the fountain leisure centre and I had not realised that the flats now continue up to the roundabout all along capital interchange way!

 

[forever gelson]

Yes. Japanese are very compliant when it comes to such things. Dave in his white van after waiting 10 mins nearly not so I would have thought.

Anyway. 11 minutes in a peak hour isn't the end of the world. People will soon adjust their behaviours.

The one in wandsworth is a nightmare. 43 mins a hour it's down IIRC. I think I got hit on the head with a barrier once!

That explains a lot then

 

[TadB]

So where are we going to build the next larger stadium nearer the roundabout land?

Kew Green!

 

[Banana]

Kew Green!

My Kew-residing banking ex-colleagues who be apocalyptical. There were already with the current stadium and enabling developments. That would drive them over the edge!

 

[TW3Bee]

That's the only way another tier can be added to the North Stand (and that would require total demolition of the existing stand). The new stand could then be over the rail line and have the station built-in underneath. Even if it was feasible and the finances were available, it would mean reduced capacity for a couple of seasons.

Probably, it would cheaper to build elsewhere.

Or play elsewhere.

Twickenham I hear you say.

 

[TadB]

Or play elsewhere.

Twickenham I hear you say.

I see the fisherman, nevertheless that would mean playing in a stadium half empty and/or playing at home in front of more away fans than home supporters. A difficult problem moving away from GTech.

 

[JANORAK]

Or play elsewhere.

Twickenham I hear you say.

Gunnersbury Park? It’s already become a destination, judging by the amount of daytime journeys terminating at Acton Town.

 

[jlove]

Or play elsewhere.

Twickenham I hear you say.

We're not going to play our games in a stadium owned by someone else...

 

[Jay Bee]

FOI request says TFL's estimate opening date is 2035. Only eight years and four months to go then


View: https://x.com/CLondoner92/status/2104860986452873447

 

[Banana]

FOI request says TFL's estimate opening date is 2035. Only eight years and four months to go then

We'll have moved stadium by then

 

[JANORAK]

We'll have moved stadium by then

And the new Piccadilly line trains will be obsolete before they’ve been used!

 

[Banana]

It'll never happen!

Staggering sum it would cost to build proposed West London Orbital train line

The 18.5km (11.5-mile) trip would be on a line which is used by freight trains and has had no regular passenger service for over 100 years

www.mylondon.news

 

[Hullbee]

It'll never happen!

Staggering sum it would cost to build proposed West London Orbital train line

The 18.5km (11.5-mile) trip would be on a line which is used by freight trains and has had no regular passenger service for over 100 years

www.mylondon.news

Lot of economic gain and improvement (excuse) to demolish a lot of sh*t holes surrounding the route and start again (regenerate)

 

[Houghton Bee]

Bargain if it gets me to New GP in 10 minutes fewer.

 

[JANORAK]

It'll never happen!

Staggering sum it would cost to build proposed West London Orbital train line

The 18.5km (11.5-mile) trip would be on a line which is used by freight trains and has had no regular passenger service for over 100 years

www.mylondon.news

How on earth do they get to that figure, when it already exists? Have they changed track, and are quoting an actual figure after delay and delay, until it’s completed in 2055?

 

[jlove]

As long as it includes plans to bulldoze Loftus Road, I'm OK with it.

 

[Hullbee]

How on earth do they get to that figure, when it already exists? Have they changed track, and are quoting an actual figure after delay and delay, until it’s completed in 2055?

I think the figure is beyond track infrastructure more likely includes the regeneration of costs like an Olympic project

 

[PhilE]

How on earth do they get to that figure, when it already exists? Have they changed track, and are quoting an actual figure after delay and delay, until it’s completed in 2055?

The route exists. Four new stations, a turnback at Hounslow, electrification of some sections, closing 3 level crossings with associated infrastructure.