Manchester City Charged With FFP Breaches (41 Viewers)

[Gee Bee]

Be interesting how many or any of these new players have clauses built into their contracts for relegation etc. be folly of the agent if they haven't

Doubt they’d need to worry as they’ll be a fire sale.

 

[hanworthbee]

Doubt they’d need to worry as they’ll be a fire sale.

Not sure there will be. I reckon they will get the players to stay to come back up then they'll be back to business as usual that's why Haaland has a 9 year deal as they knew this was coming but probably won't be anytime soon

 

[Hullbee]

Can they not dish out the punishment and then allow the appeals etc. I don’t care if appeals tske years as long as the punishment has been dished out. If your wronglyfully convicted you end up in jail undertil the appeal are decided they don’t let you continue as normal just cos you appeal.

Cut the crap and dish the penalties out

 

[aawharris]

Their are a 115 reasons why city are one of their top six assets.

That reads like something somebody that has absolutely no clue what is happening would say on X

 

[Hullbee]

Not sure there will be. I reckon they will get the players to stay to come back up then they'll be back to business as usual that's why Haaland has a 9 year deal as they knew this was coming

They will just go out on loan and reappear in the twilight of their careers in league one with city

 

[hanworthbee]

Not sure there will be. I reckon they will get the players to stay to come back up then they'll be back to business as usual that's why Haaland has a 9 year deal as they knew this was coming but probably won't be anytime soon

They will surely have to appeal being found guilty as it'll be a right mess to appeal the sentence which is why it'll take atleast another year

 

[aawharris]

I dont think any retrospective action can be taken - So and so would have won the league if it didnt happen, or so and so wouldnt have been relegated.
Nobody knows for a fact what would have happened so doing things like that would just make everything a bigger joke than it already is

 

[Alex]

I dont think any retrospective action can be taken - So and so would have won the league if it didnt happen, or so and so wouldnt have been relegated.
Nobody knows for a fact what would have happened so doing things like that would just make everything a bigger joke than it already is

Could end up like the tour de france with no winner

 

[hairman]

View: https://x.com/topskillsportuk/status/2104124542352335188?s=20

Guilty. Bin them off to the National League. 1:56 reminded me of Basil Fawlty thrashing his car.

 

[heebeegeebee]

That reads like something somebody that has absolutely no clue what is happening would say on X

I'm not on X and not sure how you came to that conclusion but hey ho.,but it's all what ifs and what's nots. If city hadn't acted like they had they probably wouldn't have had the success they have had and could quite easily have been classed as a mid table Premier league team.

 

[Andy_Mc_is_God]

Imagine a scenario where a 50 point penalty is given, so City are 37 adrift at the foot of the table. Haaland gets a hat trick. Is he even celebrating any of those goals in any meaningful way. Quite sad really.

And when I say sad. I mean absolutely hilarious

Spot on @bexleybee
I think they should also be stripped of all honours while cheating but don’t think it will happen. Minimum should by 50 point penalty this season along with disqualification from this season’s FA and League Cups and then relegation to League Two at the end of the season.

Do I think it will happen?
Of course not, but we can all dream

 

[LongLostBee]

Not sure there will be. I reckon they will get the players to stay to come back up then they'll be back to business as usual that's why Haaland has a 9 year deal as they knew this was coming but probably won't be anytime soon

Which is which they should be relegated for the number for divisions of the longest contract in years they have.

 

[WarrenBee]

LOL

 

[The Pipe]

All this talk of stripping titles, relegation a couple of divisions etc would suggest people have far more confidence in the football authorities than I do !!

Football, in this country is big business and whilst if it was little old Brentford we would be kicked into obscurity the powers that be will be well aware of the damage to their “ product” all this will do.

I would imagine the eventual scenario will be along the lines of “ in view of all the good City have done for the local community we will be issuing a massive fine which will cover all costs and claims from other teams, a transfer embargo for 3 windows and a points deduction” the latter will be enough to show teeth but unlikely enough to result in relegation.

I am old and cynical but aware that money talks and Saudi backed litigation will be very firmly in the minds. Interesting the chief Lawyer for city, who charges obscene amounts, is revered for his abilities when appealing.

This will, in my opinion, rumble on for a fair few months and result in no real winners

 

[WarrenBee]

Some guy on 5 Live said earlier that they can't just send them to League 1, 2 or the Championship as the EFL and ELP are separate organisation's, and the only way to change divisions is through promotion and relegation.
This is going to run and run.

 

[Gee Bee]

Not sure there will be. I reckon they will get the players to stay to come back up then they'll be back to business as usual that's why Haaland has a 9 year deal as they knew this was coming but probably won't be anytime soon

Length of contract simply increases a value of a player. Plus there could be all sorts of clauses we don’t know about. The punishment has to be severe but any appeal doesn’t need to be lengthy as there’s a written report and details on all witnesses statements.

 

[AtxBee]

The reporting now is this is one of the charges the EPL found City guilty of - City paid Mancini up to $6.5 million to manage the club and then a consultancy to a Mancini holding company called Sparkglow Holdings out of their Abu Dhabi Club of $2 million for 3 days work. According to the original Der Speigel article the consulting work was paid "without deduction of any taxation."

I guess my question is if this is how both City and Mancini reported all this on their taxes, how is this not going to attract all manner of interest from government investigators of all strip. Why would the rest of the premier league clubs want anything to do with this much less the sponsors. The irony of course is the league is sponsored by a big international bank. Seems like a points deduction is the least of City's problems.

https://sports.yahoo.com/articles/mancini-contract-among-115-manchester-172500602.html

Manchester City's Cozy Ties to Abu Dhabi: Sponsorship Money – Paid for by the State

Since the sanctions imposed on Chelsea owner Roman Abramovich, links between English football clubs and authoritarian states have been in the spotlight. Internal documents show that Manchester City has received funding from a government agency in Abu Dhabi.

www.spiegel.de

 

[SH]

The second two episodes of the Clive Myrie podcast (he's a City fan) are good on the financial shenanigans. The first two are just Citeh fans rabbiting on about the 'difficult' years before the Abu Dhabi do$h.

BBC Sounds - Football on Trial: The Manchester City Charges - Available Episodes

Listen to the latest episodes of Football on Trial: The Manchester City Charges on BBC Sounds.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[hanworthbee]

A lot of newspaper reporting seems to suggest this will take years to sort out as Man City will appeal every single guilty verdict so that will take forever

 

[Alex]

A lot of newspaper reporting seems to suggest this will take years to sort out as Man City will appeal every single guilty verdict so that will take forever

Are they also reporting that the sky is up?

 

[Beestill my beating heart]

A one billion pound fine; spread over the next 10 years IE a 100 million every year. No removal of their 'titles and cups' just a small asterisk that links their 'wins' to a description of the breaches and a points deduction of 50 points every year for the next 10 years.

 

[SC]

Give them penalties for every offence and let them appeal each one. On appeal for charge 1, double the penalty for frivolous appeal. See how long before they with withdraw appeals.

 

[WarrenBee]

A lot of newspaper reporting seems to suggest this will take years to sort out as Man City will appeal every single guilty verdict so that will take forever

And the lawyers will earn a fortune. The owners of Man City have got deeper pockets than the PL.

 

[LingfieldBee]

The whole thing just highlights how stinky football and it’s relationship with money has become I know you can’t have the PL or football in general without the money. But it’s something so slimey with all this City stuff.

 

[Baubaul]

Are they also reporting that the sky is up?

From a marketing point of view as a company or brand would you like to be associated with alleged or perceived cheats?

Even if they carry out the legal shenanigans would sponsors still come?

Of course they’ll have triple or quadruple sponsor boards by the pitch saying Etihad …

Any professional marketing gurus here to explain how this would work?

 

[GuyBee]

Some guy on 5 Live said earlier that they can't just send them to League 1, 2 or the Championship as the EFL and ELP are separate organisation's, and the only way to change divisions is through promotion and relegation.
This is going to run and run.

Sort of

The Premier League can either

1) Give a massive poitns deduction to ensure relegation. The Football league will have no choice but to accept them into the Championship

or

2) Expel them from the Premier League, as they have broken its rules (together with a possible exclusion for say 3 years) . In this scenario City would then have to apply to join the Football League, who would have the freedom to accept or reject them, and place them in the division they want. Placing them in the Championship will not be popular (and thats where most of the votes are) as it will mean one fewer promotion spot. Additonally the Championship has less need of the extra attendances. Possibly placing them in League Two might be popular as it will give a short term boost to attendances.

If the Football League reject them then they apply to the Northenr League etc etc

As an aside, expelling them would provide the opportunity to reduce the size of the prem. Otherwise it will be an extra team from the Championship

 

[Andrelux]

Sort of

The Premier League can either

1) Give a massive poitns deduction to ensure relegation. The Football league will have no choice but to accept them into the Championship

or

2) Expel them from the Premier League, as they have broken its rules (together with a possible exclusion for say 3 years) . In this scenario City would then have to apply to join the Football League, who would have the freedom to accept or reject them, and place them in the division they want. Placing them in the Championship will not be popular (and thats where most of the votes are) as it will mean one fewer promotion spot. Additonally the Championship has less need of the extra attendances. Possibly placing them in League Two might be popular as it will give a short term boost to attendances.

If the Football League reject them then they apply to the Northenr League etc etc

As an aside, expelling them would provide the opportunity to reduce the size of the prem. Otherwise it will be an extra team from the Championship

There's also the complicating factor that the season has already begun, so you have to decide with happens with the games which have already been played

 

[letsgotolourdes]

All this talk of stripping titles, relegation a couple of divisions etc would suggest people have far more confidence in the football authorities than I do !!

Football, in this country is big business and whilst if it was little old Brentford we would be kicked into obscurity the powers that be will be well aware of the damage to their “ product” all this will do.

I would imagine the eventual scenario will be along the lines of “ in view of all the good City have done for the local community we will be issuing a massive fine which will cover all costs and claims from other teams, a transfer embargo for 3 windows and a points deduction” the latter will be enough to show teeth but unlikely enough to result in relegation.

I am old and cynical but aware that money talks and Saudi backed litigation will be very firmly in the minds. Interesting the chief Lawyer for city, who charges obscene amounts, is revered for his abilities when appealing.

This will, in my opinion, rumble on for a fair few months and result in no real winners

Months?, City chairman has made it quite clear the club will appeal against any sanctions, this whole sorry saga will rumble on for years more and will become "The Mousetrap" of the football world.

 

[Bristolian Bee]

one fewer promotion spot

the Championship has less need

 

[Jay Bee]

Clearly they need to have the book thrown at them. Pep timed his exit well.

He did and I wonder if they knew where this was heading when he decided to go or even sooner.

He was maybe leaving, then signed a 2 year extension a year ago, then last December (6 months into that deal) they were tapping up Maresca to replace him.
Maybe he said "I owe you guys nothing... so if bad news is coming I at least want to go out with my head held high"

 

[Jay Bee]

Based off an average of 4 points deducted per breach for Everton (6 and 2 for 2 breaches), let's say they're guilty on all 115 charges, deduct 460 points now and that can keep going as they keep falling down the leagues.

Let's say they get 80 points this season, they start next season with -380 points in the championship.

Championship they get 100 points , they start league one on -280 points

League one they get 100 points, they start league two on -180 points

League two they get 100 points, they start the Nartional league on -80 points

National league they get 100 points, they end the league relegated with 20 points

National league North, they start the season fresh with a nice 0 points.

6 years of humiliation, then another 6 to get back up to the premier league.

12 years to get back up, and thats generous as they've been cheating for 17 years.... i'd say lenient but ultimately fair.

Let's see it happen.

A "Fun" idea but this is not how points deductions work. People on X/Twitter talking about 500 point deductions putting you down 5 divisions or something... it's fantasy stuff.

The most severe but realistic scenario I could imagine is

• A 70-80 point deduction for the current season, handed out late in the season so not damaging the TV spectacle too much. But probably ensuring relegation
• A further 20-25 points deduction in their next two PL seasons, probably locking them out of the CL positions for another couple of years.

One of the journalists said the latter was something that would obviously appeal to other clubs, and would be a more "lasting" punishment
I'm not sure losing Man City from the PL for one season would damage the TV deal particularly? Them starting on minus 80 points for most of a season would be a short term issue though with effectively nothing at stake for much of a season.

 

[Garybaldbee]

A "Fun" idea but this is not how points deductions work. People on X/Twitter talking about 500 point deductions putting you down 5 divisions or something... it's fantasy stuff.

The most severe but realistic scenario I could imagine is

• A 70-80 point deduction for the current season, handed out late in the season so not damaging the TV spectacle too much. But probably ensuring relegation
• A further 20-25 points deduction in their next two PL seasons, probably locking them out of the CL positions for another couple of years.

One of the journalists said the latter was something that would appeal and would be a more "lasting" punishment
I'm not sure losing Man City from the PL for one season would damage the TV deal particularly? Them starting on minus 80 points for most of a season would be a short term issue though with effectively nothing at stake for much of a season.

We also need to take into account the competitive advantage they benefited from in the cup competitions. In addition to whatever sanction they receive in the league there should also be a multi year ban from both the FA Cup and League Cup.

 

[Jay Bee]

We also need to take into account the competitive advantage they benefited from in the cup competitions. In addition to whatever sanction they receive in the league there should also be a multi year ban from both the FA Cup and League Cup.

Do the PL have jurisdiction over permissions or bans for cup entry?
The PL rules say all PL teams must enter the FA Cup and can enter the League Cup.
I'd have thought a ban would be up to the FA/EFL as competition organisers?

 

[Garybaldbee]

Do the PL have jurisdiction over permissions or bans for cup entry?
The PL rules say all PL teams must enter the FA Cup and can enter the League Cup.
I'd have thought a ban would be up to the FA/EFL as competition organisers?

It would. But presumably recommendations can be made which the FA and EFL would then apply within their jurisdiction. It may come to that anyway if City were expelled from the PL with, say, a recommendation of further points deductions in future years since that too would be for the EFL to apply. I think after the Leicester case the PL and EFL work more closely together on sanctions that can bridge the two leagues.

 

[hanworthbee]

It would. But presumably recommendations can be made which the FA and EFL would then apply within their jurisdiction. It may come to that anyway if City were expelled from the PL with, say, a recommendation of further points deductions in future years since that too would be for the EFL to apply. I think after the Leicester case the PL and EFL work more closely together on sanctions that can bridge the two leagues.

They aren't getting expelled are they. It'll be a points deduction probably next season at the earliest and a year in the champ at worst

The champ would love to have man city in their division

 

[SpiderBee]

I wonder how much say SKY might have re any demotion for City?

 

[JCMcBee]

I wonder how much say SKY might have re any demotion for City?

... I'm fairly certain Dana Strong will be chatting with Richard Masters at some point.....as will several other CEOs impacted by this matter....I really don't think City will be demoted by the EPL....and another thought... maybe City will be put up for sale... and purchased by an American based company.... nothing quite like having a monopoly.

 

[Guildford Bee]

They aren't getting expelled are they. It'll be a points deduction probably next season at the earliest and a year in the champ at worst

The champ would love to have man city in their division

Yep, my money's on a points deduction of around 30 - 40 points from the start of next season, or maybe even the one after.

 

[Wouldbee]

Make them play Shaun Goater up front for the entire season.

 

[Gee Bee]

They aren't getting expelled are they. It'll be a points deduction probably next season at the earliest and a year in the champ at worst

The champ would love to have man city in their division

Why would the Championship love to have them? It pretty much ensures a promotion place is lost. They all only play them once at home so where’s the upside?

 

[Bee(h)Iver]

More likely they’ll sue for losses (much like Burnley sued Everton) but it’s the clubs at the top end of the league who you would think will have the stronger case as it’s not like City would’ve been in a relegation battle even without the cheating.

Potentially we've lost around £12-£15m to Citeh as we could have ended up above them every season following their cheating. Same applies to every team that ended the season behind them over the years and that's just the start of the liabilities - teams that missed out on CL stand to have lost £30-50m each season. Teams who missed out on other european trophies (ie losing League Cup finalists) could argue they lost far more.

 

[LingfieldBee]

The quickest result would be a huge lump sum £500m+ plus. To be spread to all teams affected.

40-60 points.
This whole thing is going to dominate media for months all very boring as important as it is to stop the cheats

 

[Ioweddie]

Deduct 90 points a season for the next 5 years including this season. Plus £500 million fine to be distributed equally amongst every club in all 4 divisions.

 

[benfleetbee]

On Oddschecker 18/5 to be champions and 11/4 to be relegated

 

[Guildford Bee]

Potentially we've lost around £12-£15m to Citeh as we could have ended up above them every season following their cheating. Same applies to every team that ended the season behind them over the years and that's just the start of the liabilities - teams that missed out on CL stand to have lost £30-50m each season. Teams who missed out on other european trophies (ie losing League Cup finalists) could argue they lost far more.

I think those who've missed out on the CL will have the strongest case. Southampton, for example...

 

[Jay Bee]

I think those who've missed out on the CL will have the strongest case. Southampton, for example...

Southampton's highest finish was 6th in a season where top 4 got CL (2015-16) so I'm not sure they would have a strong case.

However if I were their lawyer I might be looking to argue that a weaker City might not have taken three points off them away that season (Southampton actually won the other fixture) and the gap between them was only 3 point so ... maybe they could have surpassed them in the top 4 and it was unfair.

I agree the general point. There will be lots of this sort of thing.

 

[GuyBee]

Nope, I'll stick with my use of fewer .....I can count the number of promotion spots

 

[TorbayBee]

The Premier League has always looked more like show business than sport to me. Now it is starting to look like pantomime.

I went to see a league 2 game this afternoon. I haven't enjoyed a match so much for a long time. No VAR, lots of good honest endeavour and a few moments of real skill. Lots of penalty area thrills and spills. The supporters were great, humorous, realistic and non,-entitled. In short it was a very enjoyable sporting event in good company.

Do I wish Brentford were still at that level? No not really. At least not yet. But it was a timely reminder that football can and should be sport.

I enjoy being a tourist and like the novelty of watching lower league football. This would soon wear off if the Bees were back there. I had 50 plus years of schlapping around lower league teams watching poor quality football. I now love being part of the EPL circus. I would hate it to end.

 

[hairman]

Nope, I'll stick with my use of fewer .....I can count the number of promotion spots

"Fewer promotion spots" or "one less promotion spot". You can't have it both ways.

 

[Edmundo]

"Fewer promotion spots" or "one less promotion spot". You can't have it both ways.

Nothing wrong with "one fewer".