TW1Bee
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Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
Just a thought but do UEFA have an interest in this as ultimately it has contributed to their involvement in the CL which must be somewhat tainted also now.
Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches (6 Viewers)
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horshambees
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Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
The Sauds will have nothing to do with Man.City and their litigation.
They are owned by the Abu Dhabi United Group,City Football Group (CFG).
hanworthbee
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Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
Full houses, on tv every week so extra money there
Jay Bee
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Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
UEFA already investigated the same things and punished them - the sporting sanction (a two year CL ban) was overturned by CAS though.
Miguel Delaney's book talks about the UEFA process over about 20 pages - in my opinion they were lucky. For some reason UEFA allowed Man City to nominate 2 out of 3 on the 2020 CAS panel. For some reason they thought Man City's explanations via their very big team of lawyers were plausible enough to remove the ban. They allowed charges to be time barred even though City had delayed the process by being obstructive with providing limited and delayed info (that might be the fault of the rules). UEFA didn't appeal the outcome when they could have. And they didn't go back and open a new case when a second round of leaked info came out, even though they could have.
I'm not suggesting UEFA were corrupt but they didn't seem to have the appetite for the challenge that the PL have had for the last 3-4 years, at least not at CAS. Part of it was that UEFA's judicial group, the Club Financial Control Body (CFCB) who handed out the initial punishment, whereas the CAS process which was some other UEFA lawyers who were heavily outnumbered by City's legal team.
Westlad
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Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
What would happen if they win the champions league this season but get expelled from the Premier league. Would they still qualify for next season's CL? I think the PL could decide which teams qualify through the league but City would be given the place by UEFA.
Or would it be a case of Atletico on Tuesday and Altrincham on Saturday?
Or would it be a case of Atletico on Tuesday and Altrincham on Saturday?
Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
They already charged them banned them for 2 years (About 4 years ago??)
And the Lawyers let them off with nothing on appea...
hanworthbee
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Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
Cas cleared them on technical reasons as the charges were past the statute of limitations. Imo city have farked themselves by waiting until the independent football regulator has come in. Couple of years ago the punishment would have bee less imo
bostonhanwell
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Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
Obviously a really complicated situation. I saw one interview where it was stated that when you add up prize money for PL places, CL appearances and other competition prizes you are already at a billion pounds or so. Then there are the fictitious sponsorship deals of several 100s of millions. Presumably all of that money will have to be removed from their balance sheet.
They also stand to lose virtually all of there genuine sponsorship I would have thought.
Even before you look at possible punishments such as points deductions/relegation you are looking at a huge financial black hole that the owners will not be able to finance as presumably every penny of future income will be forensically examined. Even liquidating their star spangled squad would probably not come close to covering that sort of liability.
In short they have dragged City and English football through the mud and seem intent on continuing to do so by fighting against the guilty verdict.
I honestly think this could be the end of them. Hard not to sympathise with their fans.
They also stand to lose virtually all of there genuine sponsorship I would have thought.
Even before you look at possible punishments such as points deductions/relegation you are looking at a huge financial black hole that the owners will not be able to finance as presumably every penny of future income will be forensically examined. Even liquidating their star spangled squad would probably not come close to covering that sort of liability.
In short they have dragged City and English football through the mud and seem intent on continuing to do so by fighting against the guilty verdict.
I honestly think this could be the end of them. Hard not to sympathise with their fans.
Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
Why? They all play them home once each, so might be a full house once each. Although City are not the greatest of support either. They’ll probably not fill out their own stadium. As for TV they can’t be on every week unless you’re suggesting Sky will amend their contract to accommodate a cheat?
horshambees
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Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
They have cheated and they know that and still have no shame.
Despicable club and the King of the Kippax has a glass jaw
Man.City,Bristol Rovers,Atletico Madrid and Rapid Vienna are all a load of bstrds
Despicable club and the King of the Kippax has a glass jaw
Man.City,Bristol Rovers,Atletico Madrid and Rapid Vienna are all a load of bstrds
LongLostBee
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Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
There’s no business like show business.
hanworthbee
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Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
If you let nation states do what they want they can just buy titles. If you do it via revenue the same old teams will win them
no wonder they were all in on SCR
no wonder they were all in on SCRManchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
Joe Hart comes out with a statement showing that nothing is wrong in his eyes....
www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk
Joe Hart gives simple verdict on Man City charges and says 'I know what we did'
Khaldoon Al Mubarak addressed reporting around Manchester City's Premier League charges verdict and Joe Hart has now joined the club chairman in speaking out
Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
Yes Joe would know. Could have saved everyone a lot of time on this if he’d let us know earlierJoe Hart comes out with a statement showing that nothing is wrong in his eyes....
Joe Hart gives simple verdict on Man City charges and says 'I know what we did'
Khaldoon Al Mubarak addressed reporting around Manchester City's Premier League charges verdict and Joe Hart has now joined the club chairman in speaking out
StevieSteve
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Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
Or... Joe Hart was a panellist on a radio forum, said he had no reason to not trust the Chairman's statement and wouldn't enter into speculation until shown otherwise.Joe Hart comes out with a statement showing that nothing is wrong in his eyes....
Joe Hart gives simple verdict on Man City charges and says 'I know what we did'
Khaldoon Al Mubarak addressed reporting around Manchester City's Premier League charges verdict and Joe Hart has now joined the club chairman in speaking out
hanworthbee
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Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
They won't be pushed down it'll be a points deduction if it happens and relegation promotion won't change
Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
There's precendence for relegation with Swindon Town.
hanworthbee
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Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
The PL wasn't around then so easier to demote
Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
Any points deduction surely will be enough to effectively relegate them. Even if they stagger it over several seasons.
hanworthbee
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Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
Be better to deduct them 100 points over 4/5 seasons rather than say 1 as then they won't qualify for the CL for that amount of time. One season in the champ it'll be the status quo within a year
JCMcBee
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Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
....I don't think you and Liam Gallagher will ever be friends.
Jay Bee
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Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
Like I said a few pages back you could do both.
Say they worked out the crime was worth 130 points, you could say 70 points deducted now (likely leading to relegation) and then another 20 points in three subsequent seasons.
Either it makes it harder for them to get out of the Championship, or makes it hard to get in the CL (which was then blunt their ability to sign the top players)
JCMcBee
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Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
...70 points.....you really think those at the EPL would make themselves look like idiots?
Jay Bee
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Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
Yes, to be honest.
The precedent for a starting point 6 points per year for an FFP/PSR breach, from the Everton and Forest cases. That tariff can move up or down based on whether you cooperated (Forest got a discount for cooperation), clearly City have done everything possible to aggravate the process.
They are under investigation for 9 years. Let's say non-cooperation turns 6 points into 8 points, which is probably a modest assumption given the number of charges around non-cooperation.
9 times 8 is 72 points before you get to the charges around off-books payments to players.
The scale of it is well beyond anything else like this and I would expect the punishment to fit that scale. if it doesn't I will be keen to know why.
JCMcBee
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Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
Fair enough...in simplistic terms... here's what I think might happen...for starters not sure the 'points' punishment will happen this season....my absolute guess would be..and it is a guess..30 points deduction next season and the following two... almost certainly meaning MCFC wouldn't win the league nor perhaps qualify for European competition(no idea how this matter impacts on domestic cup competitions),with the possibility of relegation,should the likes of EH decide to leave the club...a transfer embargo for 3 years.... starting in January....and a substantial fine( undisclosed ?)which will find it's way...via the EPL...into the coffers of all EPL clubs both past and present impacted by MCFCs fraudulent behaviour....I also think there is a possibility MCFC will be sold.
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Westlad
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Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
Not really the role of a pundit to respond to every question with: "I'm not going to answer 'if' questions". Especially if you're talking three days after the news has dropped and there's no new info.
stomalomalus
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Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
I'm not sure there's any way there will be multiple seasons worth of point deductions...it'll be one season plus a transfer ban and fine. I doubt it'll be anything more than that.
Terrace Weeding
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Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
This sums it up perfectly because the premier league do not have the funds to keep it going. City owners know that the league is under pressure from many of it's clubs to end this.
JCMcBee
Well-known member
Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
... you're probably right....I guess the number of points deducted will be the interesting part.... enough to stop them winning the league... but not enough to ensure they are relegated... perhaps....hey ho..... all I know is the EPL need to get their house in order moving forward.... they make the rules...they police them properly.
BlueJayBee
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Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
Surely not, I thought they bled sky blue, if you were to cut them, such is their loyalty.
Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
The independent Commission found that between Seasons 2009/10 and 2017/18:
- Manchester City arranged ‘sham’ contracts (which misrepresented the true agreement between the parties) with a number of its commercial partners, as well as relying on ‘sham’ agreements with others, to artificially inflate the club’s revenues and reduce its costs
- The club filed misstated accounts and concealed the true state of its finances from its auditors and football regulators
- Manchester City was significantly in breach of both the Premier League’s and UEFA’s spending limits
- During the Premier League’s investigation, Manchester City committed multiple breaches of its duties of co-operation and utmost good faith towards the League (three of the four alleged breaches were upheld)
The purpose of these schemes was found to have been to artificially inflate the club’s revenues, and reduce its costs, by more than £900 million during the affected period, to appear to comply with financial rules. The consequence of this, as the Commission found, was that the club filed misstated accounts and concealed the true state of its finances from its auditors and football regulators. The Commission concluded that ‘by its conduct the club clearly intended to circumvent the PL Rules‘.
- Manchester City arranged ‘sham’ contracts (which misrepresented the true agreement between the parties) with a number of its commercial partners, as well as relying on ‘sham’ agreements with others, to artificially inflate the club’s revenues and reduce its costs
- The club filed misstated accounts and concealed the true state of its finances from its auditors and football regulators
- Manchester City was significantly in breach of both the Premier League’s and UEFA’s spending limits
- During the Premier League’s investigation, Manchester City committed multiple breaches of its duties of co-operation and utmost good faith towards the League (three of the four alleged breaches were upheld)
The purpose of these schemes was found to have been to artificially inflate the club’s revenues, and reduce its costs, by more than £900 million during the affected period, to appear to comply with financial rules. The consequence of this, as the Commission found, was that the club filed misstated accounts and concealed the true state of its finances from its auditors and football regulators. The Commission concluded that ‘by its conduct the club clearly intended to circumvent the PL Rules‘.
filmyfan
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Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
Bit surprised this statement has come out now - thought it would go quiet for years
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Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
Premier League Statement: Manchester City FC
www.premierleague.com
Redacted version of decision here:
An independent Commission has found Manchester City FC guilty of all charges related to serious breaches of the Premier League’s financial rules over a nine-season period, and the majority of charges in relation to its failure to co-operate with the League’s investigation.
The independent Commission found that between Seasons 2009/10 and 2017/18:
- Manchester City arranged ‘sham’ contracts (which misrepresented the true agreement between the parties) with a number of its commercial partners, as well as relying on ‘sham’ agreements with others, to artificially inflate the club’s revenues and reduce its costs
- The club filed misstated accounts and concealed the true state of its finances from its auditors and football regulators
- Manchester City was significantly in breach of both the Premier League’s and UEFA’s spending limits
- During the Premier League’s investigation, Manchester City committed multiple breaches of its duties of co-operation and utmost good faith towards the League (three of the four alleged breaches were upheld)
The independent Commission found that Manchester City arranged ‘sham’ commercial deals with a number of its sponsors during the period, which were part of a disguised funding scheme, whereby those companies were only required to pay a portion of the relevant sponsorship fees. The remainder was funded by Abu Dhabi United Group Investment & Development Ltd (ADUG), which owned the club. As part of the scheme, further ‘sham’ arrangements, funded by ADUG, were entered into to enable the club to record lower operating expenses than it actually incurred, as well as a ‘sham’ circular arrangement with Fordham, an entity that purchased the club’s players’ image rights, that was funded by ADUG.
The purpose of these schemes was found to have been to artificially inflate the club’s revenues, and reduce its costs, by more than £900 million during the affected period, to appear to comply with financial rules. The consequence of this, as the Commission found, was that the club filed misstated accounts and concealed the true state of its finances from its auditors and football regulators. The Commission concluded that ‘by its conduct the club clearly intended to circumvent the PL Rules‘.
As a result, Manchester City failed to accurately report its income and expenditure for the purposes of the Premier League’s Profitability and Sustainability Rules and UEFA’s Club Licensing and Financial Fair Play Rules. The Commission found that, had all of the relevant agreements been reported accurately in the club’s accounts, it would have been in breach of both the League’s and UEFA’s spending limits by a very substantial amount.
In addition, during the course of the four-year investigation conducted by the Premier League, the club committed multiple breaches of its duties of co-operation and utmost good faith towards the League. The Commission concluded that the club had ‘made concerted efforts to stop and frustrate the PL investigation’.
Richard Masters, Chief Executive of the Premier League, said: “The core decision establishes the facts of what happened at Manchester City during this period. It details how the club systematically broke Premier League Rules for nearly a decade.
“It also vindicates the Premier League’s decision to pursue this case against Manchester City. While the process to date has been both long and difficult, the League has remained determined that the facts be established independently.
“It is a key responsibility of the Premier League to ensure that the Rules, approved by the clubs themselves, are upheld to protect the integrity of the competition. It is paramount that the League remains competitive and fair for all clubs and for the fans. We take that role extremely seriously.
“This disciplinary case, and this decision, are the most significant in Premier League history. There are elements of the case that remain to be decided, including, importantly, what sanction must follow for these breaches. Now we have the Commission’s decision, we are committed to moving swiftly through the remainder of the process, to provide certainty for the League, our clubs and fans.”
The independent Commission’s findings are set out in a Core Decision, of which a redacted version has been published (click here). The Commission’s award comprises both the Core Decision and a large number of additional appendices, which the League is committed to publishing as soon as it is able.
The League is able to publish the Core Decision because the Commission has ruled (and an Appeal Board has confirmed) that the Commission’s decision is a ‘final award’.
Now that the charges have been proved, the issue of sanction will be addressed separately in a further hearing with the independent Commission. In accordance with Premier League rules, that hearing will remain private and confidential until such a time as publication of the outcome is permitted.
The club has the right to appeal the independent Commission’s findings and has until Friday 2 October to exercise that right.
The Premier League Board’s intention is that the full process (including any appeals and publication of relevant decisions) is concluded as soon as possible.
Notes to Editors
Premier League investigation, independent Commission process:- The Premier League began its investigation into Manchester City in December 2018, and a complaint was subsequently issued under Section W of the League’s rules in February 2023
- The independent Commission held a 42-day hearing, which concluded in December 2024
- In explaining the length of time it had taken to provide the parties with a decision, the independent Commission wrote: ‘It has taken us much longer than we would have wished, and much longer than we had anticipated would be the case when the hearing concluded, to produce our Decision. That is regrettable.
‘However, we were fortunate to have available to us throughout the period in which our Decision has been being prepared not only all of the documents that were used at the hearing but also
(a) verbatim transcripts of the evidence given by each witness and expert at the hearing. Those transcripts ran to approximately 7,000 pages, and (b) extremely detailed written submissions from the parties (that they had supplemented orally over four days at the end of the hearing) on the evidence and each of the numerous issues that we were tasked with determining in the proceedings.’
Premier League investigations, independent Commissions, and Appeal Boards
- The Premier League Board has the power to investigate any suspected or alleged breach of Premier League Rules
- Where, following the conclusion of an investigation or otherwise, the Board believes that there is a suspicion or allegation of a Rule breach, it has a number of options available to it. One of these options is to issue a written complaint and refer the matter to a Commission
- The League has established an independent Judicial Panel, comprising a number of legal, financial and other experts
- Members of the Judicial Panel are appointed by its independent Chair. It is also the Chair of the Judicial Panel who selects members of the Judicial Panel to sit on Commissions, which are independent of the Premier League. The Chair of the Judicial Panel at the time of the Complaint in these proceedings was Murray Rosen KC. The current Chair of the Judicial Panel is Sir Gary Hickinbottom
- All proceedings convened under Section W of the Rules are confidential and heard in private
- The Commission appointed under Section W of the Rules has a broad discretion as to the sanctions it wishes to apply, the non-exhaustive list set out in rules includes fines, points deductions and other sporting sanctions
- Whenever a Commission makes what is described as a ‘final award’ in the rules, such decisions are published on the Premier League website
- A party to proceedings that wishes to challenge a decision of the Commission may do so under Section W of the Premier League Rules, by filing an appeal to be heard before an Appeal Board
- Appeal Boards are also appointed by the Chair of the Judicial Panel and must have three members, one of whom should have held judicial office, and would sit as the chair of the Appeal Board
- An Appeal Board has wide discretion in respect of the appeal, and may allow it, dismiss it, or make any other order that it thinks fit (including varying the order of Commission)
For further information on the disciplinary process, please see Section W of the Premier League Handbook.
Confidentiality
- The disciplinary proceedings between the Premier League and the club have been confidential, as provided for in the League’s Rules
- Premier League Rules provide for the publication of the outcomes of final awards of Commissions
- It has recently been determined that certain aspects about the findings of the Commission in these proceedings may be published under the League’s Rules.
- At this stage, the Premier League is only permitted to publish a redacted version of the summary of the Commission’s ‘core findings’
- The process remains ongoing and any further information related to the proceedings that has not been published by the Premier League remains confidential. When the Premier League is able to do so under the League’s Rules – unless legally prevented from doing so - the Premier League will publish the full Decision and any further updates. In the meantime, all aspects of the ongoing process will be confidential
Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
I’m not an accountant (and this may appear a little naive), but I’m under the impression that if an accountant signs off false accounts then that individual can be criminally prosecuted for doing so. So the ramifications of this will, obviously, involve the club’s senior management as well as the day-to-day running of the club outside of the EPL’s own regulations and assumed punishment that may follow.
Edmundo
Whinging pom
Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
Are the commission saying that they not only broke PL rules, but also filed inaccurate accounts? Could be some criminal penalties also be in the offing?
Edmundo
Whinging pom
Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
So the Man City lied in the hearing !!
However, as set out principally in that Appendix 6 we concluded
a) That evidence given by a number of important factual witnesses called to give evidence
on behalf of the Club was false in a number of key respects, and
b) That certain of those factual witnesses had given evidence at the hearing that they knew
to be untrue and so had been dishonest.
However, as set out principally in that Appendix 6 we concluded
a) That evidence given by a number of important factual witnesses called to give evidence
on behalf of the Club was false in a number of key respects, and
b) That certain of those factual witnesses had given evidence at the hearing that they knew
to be untrue and so had been dishonest.
Sianist
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Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
Not entirely certain on English-specific accounting laws, but i believe while the accountant can/will/ought to be charged, they can get off if they can reasonably prove that they did their due diligence by spot checking in east and west, and they couldn't find any reason to doubt its validity.
Still wouldn't be a good case to have for said accountant (since it's in effect holding your hands up admitting to have been too incompetent to spot the fraud), but I believe there is a narrow route out of being considered legally liable.
Gazza Bee
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Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
Well that seems extremely damning to me and assiming no appeal is successful the punishment will be unlike anything seen before to set a precedent. Surely relegation or effective relegation is the end result here? £900m is an extraordinary amount of financial misstatements to make in a football environment.
Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
BBC Sport story says: The sham commercial deals were described as being part of a "disguised funding scheme" to the scale of £830.69m.
Unbelievable scale of cheating. I think there's a moral case of them losing all that money and being relegated to League Two.
Not saying that's going to happen but I do believe that as the scale of this becomes clearer they're looking at a huge and unprecedented punishment.
Unbelievable scale of cheating. I think there's a moral case of them losing all that money and being relegated to League Two.
Not saying that's going to happen but I do believe that as the scale of this becomes clearer they're looking at a huge and unprecedented punishment.
Sianist
Active member
Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
Wonder if there's a world where PL/EFL/FA/UEFA in unison declare their license void.
Man City still theoretically exist as a company entity, but they'd now no longer have a license to play official matches anywhere. with the practical result being that there's a relegated club less all the way down the tree till we hit regional leagues
Man City still theoretically exist as a company entity, but they'd now no longer have a license to play official matches anywhere. with the practical result being that there's a relegated club less all the way down the tree till we hit regional leagues
Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
Man City will appeal and appeal, have to make sure the punishment makes sense otherwise the appeal will be easy and a waste of time.
As others have said, proper scum behaviour (well if they didn't, i am
) - nothing more than explosion from the Prem for 3 years would fit IMO.
As others have said, proper scum behaviour (well if they didn't, i am
) - nothing more than explosion from the Prem for 3 years would fit IMO.
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LingfieldBee
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Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
This example is why it needs to be the most serve punishment possible, outright blatant cheating.
Garybaldbee
Active member
Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
To put that sum into context in disciplinary terms Everton were docked 6 points (reduced from 10 on appeal) for an FFP overspend of £19m.........
Hippobee
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Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches
Damning stuff.
It's difficult to see what they will base an appeal on. You would think it can only be on factual in accuracies, but you'd like to think all this time taken means every thing has been checked, checked and checked again.
Man C will now say "We've got richer lawyers than you - how far do you want to go with this?"
PL need to hold their nerve now, no matter what it costs for their legal teams. Big principles at stake and the future of the league. Look at what Swindon got relegated 2 divisions for all those years ago (reduced to one on appeal). This is SO much worse.
Think of all the honest PL clubs as Sean Connery's dying Malone in The Untouchables, as Kevin Costner considers bottling out against Al Capone. With his last breath he grabs him and shouts, "What are you prepared to do?" Then dies.
Well PL, with regards to the right sanction and backing up words with actions, the rest of football ask:
"What are you prepared to do?"
Do the right thing and stick to it, no matter what crap Man C throw at you.
It's difficult to see what they will base an appeal on. You would think it can only be on factual in accuracies, but you'd like to think all this time taken means every thing has been checked, checked and checked again.
Man C will now say "We've got richer lawyers than you - how far do you want to go with this?"
PL need to hold their nerve now, no matter what it costs for their legal teams. Big principles at stake and the future of the league. Look at what Swindon got relegated 2 divisions for all those years ago (reduced to one on appeal). This is SO much worse.
Think of all the honest PL clubs as Sean Connery's dying Malone in The Untouchables, as Kevin Costner considers bottling out against Al Capone. With his last breath he grabs him and shouts, "What are you prepared to do?" Then dies.
Well PL, with regards to the right sanction and backing up words with actions, the rest of football ask:
"What are you prepared to do?"
Do the right thing and stick to it, no matter what crap Man C throw at you.