Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches

[hanworthbee]

That sign needs to change to pannick on the streets of Manchester

 

[JANORAK]

That sign needs to change to pannick on the streets of Manchester

Mention in these pages that Arsenal will become instant beneficiaries following any MCFC punishment. This would seem like a good time to remind readers that Arteta was taken on by Pep G., and was active there during 2016-2019….

 

[bostonhanwell]

I'm guessing you're a little older? But the new breed of Brentford fans will see where you are now as the new groundfloor. The newer fans will grow frustrated by the limits put on you.

I disagree. The majority of Brentford fans of all ages understand that we are massively punching above our weight and will continue to enjoy it for as long as it lasts.

 

[JCMcBee]

I disagree. The majority of Brentford fans of all ages understand that we are massively punching above our weight and will continue to enjoy it for as long as it lasts.

Fog on the Tyne has long departed this discussion...however...his argument that recent recruits to the Brentford revolution will grow frustrated doesn't cut it... he's simply looking at it from a NUFC supporters point of view.... frustrated as hell that his club aren't as 'massive' as he believes they should be...we know our place at BFC....new and old....we will bide our time...we don't need instant gratification.... our time will come....the Brentford way.... anyway

 

[Banana]

The accounting industry regulator is “making inquiries” into the behaviour of accountants and auditors working with Manchester City, the football club at the centre of a financial scandal.

The Financial Reporting Council has not opened a formal investigation into BDO, Manchester City’s long-time auditor, but it has the power to should it see fit.

The Times understands officials are deliberating behind the scenes if or when to get involved.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Enough of Newcastle United on this thread.

Bump for @The Fish benefit.

 

[LongLostBee]

The accounting industry regulator is “making inquiries” into the behaviour of accountants and auditors working with Manchester City, the football club at the centre of a financial scandal.

The Financial Reporting Council has not opened a formal investigation into BDO, Manchester City’s long-time auditor, but it has the power to should it see fit.

The Times understands officials are deliberating behind the scenes if or when to get involved.

Don't tell me the "auditors" were just taking the money and just signing off any old bullsh*t! That never happens!

I'm surprised the Big4 haven't created their own version of the Bronze Bull, but based on this, and put it overlooking the river around BlackFriars:

 

[AB]

This guy Lord Pannick is a bit overrated, isn't he?

There’s only so much you can polish a turd and ultimately it remains a turd.

That said, let’s see what sanction is imposed. Sometimes the big win is not in guilt/innocence but consequence.

Most often in regulatory cases the biggest win is to hold your hands up immediately and limit what is asked and publicly disclosed. But businesses controlled by individuals and governments who believe themselves justified and above reproach are often not inclined to take that approach.

City probably could have made this all go away years ago with a minor and short sanction as Chelsea did. Chelsea even managed to get through having been owned by a Russian when it wasn’t really very much their fault that Russia invaded Ukraine.

 

[ziggys_human]

what's REALLY getting on my t!ts over the recent reporting of this is remarks like 'IF manchester city are (found) guilty of these charges...'

there IS no 'if', they HAVE been found guilty!

if they don't agree with the rules or the verdict, tough sh!t, and they can fk right off!

simples

'competitions' without rules is what they seek

 

[brentford born & bred]

An extract from an article in The Telegraph below. It begs the question why would commercial entities enter into inflated sponsorship deals they couldn't afford. Also how could these deals pass a Fair Market Valuation?

"City’s appeal in their epic case against the Premier League will rely on an argument that the vast fees at the heart of this cheating case – the “sham contracts” worth £830m – were not money backchannelled into the club by the Abu Dhabi United Group (ADUG) via inflated commercial deals. Instead, they were top-ups provided by the Abu Dhabi government in order that the Abu Dhabi brands and companies could meet the liabilities for purportedly legitimate commercial deals agreed with City. Deals agreed at levels, the club’s counsel appears to have argued, that these would-be sponsors seemingly could not afford to pay."

 

[Banana]

An extract from an article in The Telegraph below. It begs the question why would commercial entities enter into inflated sponsorship deals they couldn't afford. Also how could these deals pass a Fair Market Valuation?

"City’s appeal in their epic case against the Premier League will rely on an argument that the vast fees at the heart of this cheating case – the “sham contracts” worth £830m – were not money backchannelled into the club by the Abu Dhabi United Group (ADUG) via inflated commercial deals. Instead, they were top-ups provided by the Abu Dhabi government in order that the Abu Dhabi brands and companies could meet the liabilities for purportedly legitimate commercial deals agreed with City. Deals agreed at levels, the club’s counsel appears to have argued, that these would-be sponsors seemingly could not afford to pay."

Yeah this has been posted many many times already. And that the judgement explained that they considered that and called it "f***ing bullshit". Something like that anyway.

 

[hanworthbee]

An extract from an article in The Telegraph below. It begs the question why would commercial entities enter into inflated sponsorship deals they couldn't afford. Also how could these deals pass a Fair Market Valuation?

"City’s appeal in their epic case against the Premier League will rely on an argument that the vast fees at the heart of this cheating case – the “sham contracts” worth £830m – were not money backchannelled into the club by the Abu Dhabi United Group (ADUG) via inflated commercial deals. Instead, they were top-ups provided by the Abu Dhabi government in order that the Abu Dhabi brands and companies could meet the liabilities for purportedly legitimate commercial deals agreed with City. Deals agreed at levels, the club’s counsel appears to have argued, that these would-be sponsors seemingly could not afford to pay."

Even if this is true or if the next panel believe it still sounds illegal ! Or at best not right

 

[Banana]

Even if this is true it still sounds illegal ! Or at best not right

the judgement explained that they considered this "defence" and called it "f***ing bullshit". Something like that anyway.

 

[Banana]

Deadline day for City's appeal​

It's Friday, which means only one thing for those connected with Manchester City. Deadline day.

This time, it is not for transfers. Instead, it is to appeal their guilty verdict.

City deny the charges, and lawyers argued during the 2024 hearing that the funding had come from the Abu Dhabi government, but this was rejected by the independent commission.

 

[Untouchable]

It would be epic if he’s dropping more Man City leaks this evening.


View: https://x.com/ruipinto_fl/status/2105689948817101206?s=46&t=SQP7mje7Pimu8X-ugPnQnQ

 

[Banana]

It would be epic if he’s dropping more Man City leaks this evening.


View: https://x.com/ruipinto_fl/status/2105689948817101206?s=46&t=SQP7mje7Pimu8X-ugPnQnQ

Just after the window for them to appeal?

When is the deadline today? 17:00 UTC? 23:59?

 

[hobbsy]

Just after the window for them to appeal?

When is the deadline today? 17:00 UTC? 23:59?

1
Yes 17:00 UTC/18:00 BST

 

[bexleybee]

The FA with a statement to say they’re not making a statement

FA statement on Manchester City

The Independent Commission’s decision has significant implications for the integrity of the game.

www.thefa.com

 

[Scratchy]

The FA with a statement to say they’re not making a statement

FA statement on Manchester City

The Independent Commission’s decision has significant implications for the integrity of the game.

www.thefa.com

They really have washed their hands of the governance of the game haven't they. They are just so pitifully weak!

 

[hobbsy]

They really have washed their hands of the governance of the game haven't they. They are just so pitifully weak!

Yes, that's why we have an independent regulator as the FA failed to regulate

 

[Banana]

The FA with a statement to say they’re not making a statement

FA statement on Manchester City

The Independent Commission’s decision has significant implications for the integrity of the game.

www.thefa.com

The GPG has also made a statement


The Independent Commission’s decision has significant implications for the integrity of the game. We are carefully considering the decision and its implications and will take action where appropriate.

As proceedings between the Premier League and Manchester City Football Club remain ongoing, we do not intend to comment further at this stage. We will, however, continue to monitor developments closely.

 

[Banana]

Oh, Look at this:

What a f***ing surprise eh?



UAE officials have warned the UK government that the severity of Man City’s punishment could undermine their appetite for future grand-scale commitments in Britain, according to people familiar with the matter

They consider the Premier League’s actions to have an influence on the bilateral state relationship, the people said, asking not to be identified discussing undisclosed information

The extraordinary pressure comes after Andy Burnham faced criticism, including from within government, for saying Man City’s Abu Dhabi owners should not be disqualified specifically because of the investment they bring to Britain
View: https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2105941014636642382?s=20

 

[Untouchable]

Whoops…


View: https://x.com/draper_rob/status/2105950408392749452?s=61&t=EJGqSVScFRoPzRCeoUcI_w

 

[Banana]

Whoops…


View: https://x.com/draper_rob/status/2105950408392749452?s=61&t=EJGqSVScFRoPzRCeoUcI_w

Do they even understand how information dissemenation works?

 

[upnorthbee]

Oh, Look at this:

What a f***ing surprise eh?



UAE officials have warned the UK government that the severity of Man City’s punishment could undermine their appetite for future grand-scale commitments in Britain, according to people familiar with the matter

They consider the Premier League’s actions to have an influence on the bilateral state relationship, the people said, asking not to be identified discussing undisclosed information

The extraordinary pressure comes after Andy Burnham faced criticism, including from within government, for saying Man City’s Abu Dhabi owners should not be disqualified specifically because of the investment they bring to Britain
View: https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2105941014636642382?s=20

Wow, it stinks more and more each day

 

[LingfieldBee]

Wow, it stinks more and more each day

The owner of City bailed out Barclays for something like 7bn in 2008 crash, he used his money to regenerate Manchester. Their money something like 10bn is set for infrastructure projects in UK.
This whole thing stinks and I’m sure the PL will be told in a quiet room by someone from the UK Gov to go easy on them.

 

[Banana]

The owner of City bailed out Barclays for something like 7bn in 2008 crash,

Er.....yeah that wasn't exactly above board either.

But anyway......

 

[Banana]

Sky News report the appeal has been lodged.

 

[brentford born & bred]

Whoops…


View: https://x.com/draper_rob/status/2105950408392749452?s=61&t=EJGqSVScFRoPzRCeoUcI_w

Banged to rights .

It appears they have ducked and dived for so long they have forgotten who they have lied too.

 

[hobbsy]

Banged to rights .

It appears they have ducked and dived for so long they have forgotten who they have lied too.

It's like a child telling their Mum one thing and their Dad another and thinking they won't speak to each other.

 

[Banana]

It's like a child telling their Mum one thing and their Dad another and thinking they won't speak to each other.

The internet is a wonderful thing. It never forgets.

 

[SH]

@SwissRamble has done a typically thorough run through all the numbers. It's long, but 100% worth the read to see the financial detail, and the scale of cheating relative to other clubs' finances every season. I particularly liked this chart:

Financial Implications of the Manchester City Decision

Fake Plastic Trees

swissramble.substack.com

 

[jbee]

Whoops…


View: https://x.com/draper_rob/status/2105950408392749452?s=61&t=EJGqSVScFRoPzRCeoUcI_w

It is so odd that this all boils down to making a distinction between the owners funding Etihad sponsorship, which is a grievous breach of the rules; as opposed to the money coming from Abu Dhabi subsidies, which is all fine. We all know it amounts to the exact same thing. Having a country own a club makes a mockery of the rules and the only reason they are not getting away with it is that they have told the wrong lies.

 

[gbems92]

So it sounds like their defence is going to be political blackmail. Let us do as we like or we will pull our investment

 

[Banana]

@Untouchable - you're a sensible bloke. What can actually be done do you think?

 

[JANORAK]

So it sounds like their defence is going to be political blackmail. Let us do as we like or we will pull our investment

Close their Academy for 10 years! Nwosu (Bee) played for England boys the other day. His teammates in the squad included 7(SEVEN) from ManC…

 

[JCMcBee]

Get the Americans involved and sort this sh*tshow out ....sell MCFC.... overhaul of the EPLs fit and proper rules.... football wins.

 

[Untouchable]

@Untouchable - you're a sensible bloke. What can actually be done do you think?

There’s lots of moving parts here.

Are Manchester City guilty? Yes. Overwhelmingly.

I say this primarily because of the language used in the decision. The panel did not hold back. References to sham agreements and false evidence are as damning as they come. We don’t know who was on the panel but a reasonable assumption is that it was heavyweight. Certainly a panel capable of dealing with Lord Pannick and the magic circle money Man City have spent.

Will the appeal succeed? No.

Findings on the civil standard are much easier to back up I.e I have considered your evidence and considered it against the other evidence and reject it because…Not easy to show an error here.

Also the speculated grounds seem to run contrary to what was told to the US enquiry in 2015. We should expect the appeal to be dismissed in its entirety.

The punishment. This is the hard bit.

I suspect there is a disconnect between what football fans want to happen and what will happen.

I am all for throwing the book at them. They’ve cheated at an unprecedented level and only the strongest punishment will suffice.

I expect all PL titles and cups won during this period will be stripped from Man City. There is no basis to award them to anyone else. This is a safe outcome too as it punishes the wrongdoing and doesn’t create other problems beyond these seasons and cups needing an asterisk.

A massive fine. Hundreds of millions. This feels like a good outcome as should force Man City to sell assets which makes them less competitive in the coming seasons.

Man City will not be in the PL next season. How we get there is messy. The PL and EFL being different organisations, the lack of precedent for things like multi year points deductions, the need to ensure the punishment is proportionate but won’t put Man City out of business, the obvious external (ie government) pressures. Press reports yesterday suggest a lack of appetite for expulsion. That leaves you with a points deduction. One that ensures relegation. This is IMO sub optimal versus the level of cheating but will also be safe against any appeal.

TLDR:
Guilty? Yes
Appeal? No chance
Punishment? Titles stripped. Massive fine. Massive points deduction.

 

[hanworthbee]

Oh, Look at this:

What a f***ing surprise eh?



UAE officials have warned the UK government that the severity of Man City’s punishment could undermine their appetite for future grand-scale commitments in Britain, according to people familiar with the matter

They consider the Premier League’s actions to have an influence on the bilateral state relationship, the people said, asking not to be identified discussing undisclosed information

The extraordinary pressure comes after Andy Burnham faced criticism, including from within government, for saying Man City’s Abu Dhabi owners should not be disqualified specifically because of the investment they bring to Britain
View: https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2105941014636642382?s=20

Well if the country lose £30bn worth of investment thats quite a big thing!

 

[Ghost]

Wow, it stinks more and more each day

I would imagine this is an end to the matter of any punishment that will satisfy fans.

I’m sure Burnham has a nice collection of flat caps he can wring in his hands.

 

[Banana]

Well if the country lose £30bn worth of investment thats quite a big thing!

How much is £30bn as a fraction of our GDP?

What are they going to do with the £30bn. Declare it worthless and blow it up?

or sell it to someone else....

 

[Banana]

There’s lots of moving parts here.

Are Manchester City guilty? Yes. Overwhelmingly.

I say this primarily because of the language used in the decision. The panel did not hold back. References to sham agreements and false evidence are as damning as they come. We don’t know who was on the panel but a reasonable assumption is that it was heavyweight. Certainly a panel capable of dealing with Lord Pannick and the magic circle money Man City have spent.

Will the appeal succeed? No.

Findings on the civil standard are much easier to back up I.e I have considered your evidence and considered it against the other evidence and reject it because…Not easy to show an error here.

Also the speculated grounds seem to run contrary to what was told to the US enquiry in 2015. We should expect the appeal to be dismissed in its entirety.

The punishment. This is the hard bit.

I suspect there is a disconnect between what football fans want to happen and what will happen.

I am all for throwing the book at them. They’ve cheated at an unprecedented level and only the strongest punishment will suffice.

I expect all PL titles and cups one during this period will be stripped from Man City. There is no basis to award them to anyone else. This is a safe outcome too as it punishes the wrongdoing and doesn’t create other problems beyond these seasons and cups needing an asterisk.

A massive fine. Hundreds of millions. This feels like a good outcome as should force Man City to sell assets which makes them less competitive in the coming seasons.

Man City will not be in the PL next season. How we get there is messy. The PL and EFL being different organisations, the lack of precedent for things like multi year points deductions, the need to ensure the punishment is proportionate but won’t put Man City out of business, the obvious external (ie government) pressures. Press reports yesterday suggest a lack of appetite for expulsion. That leaves you with a points deduction. One that ensures relegation. This is IMO sub optimal versus the level of cheating but will also be safe against any appeal.

TLDR:
Guilty? Yes
Appeal? No chance
Punishment? Titles stripped. Massive fine. Massive points deduction.

Excellent. By a long coindence I had a 30 mins chat with, er, a GPGer (and his mate) who said rather similar things.

 

[GuyBee]

Well if the country lose £30bn worth of investment thats quite a big thing!

Most of that investment has been made, its future investment. If they want to sell £30bn of assets in a fire sale there will be plenty of takers.

They invested in the UK for one of two reasons (not mutually exclusive)

1) to make money. In this case others will be prepared to buy thte assets

2) to have political influence - in which case they can b**ger off. No better then Farage's 5m in my book

Unlike many countries, Football in England is as much a part of the culture as pubs......to have they game corrupted, especialy by an outside actor, to me is a direct attack on our culture.

My language might be a bit robust but I stand by the spirit

 

[Vid]

Take City out of private ownership and let the supporters own it. I think that happened somewhere before.

 

[SWL Bee]

Surely it’s also safe to assume there has been a similar level of ‘sham’ funding in the period post 2018. There’s no way they just stopped and they now report commercial revenues in excess of Real Madrid and Barcelona, which is clearly highly suspicious. Just need some more leaked emails…

 

[80s Bee]

Surely it’s also safe to assume there has been a similar level of ‘sham’ funding in the period post 2018. There’s no way they just stopped and they now report commercial revenues in excess of Real Madrid and Barcelona, which is clearly highly suspicious. Just need some more leaked emails…

Indeed. And given how unrepentant and bullish they are behaving isn’t it highly likely they will continue cheating? Maybe they’ll just disguise it better. If the owners are allowed to stay then the PL will never be able to move on from this scandal.

 

[stomalomalus]

Most of that investment has been made, its future investment. If they want to sell £30bn of assets in a fire sale there will be plenty of takers.

They invested in the UK for one of two reasons (not mutually exclusive)

1) to make money. In this case others will be prepared to buy thte assets

2) to have political influence - in which case they can b**ger off. No better then Farage's 5m in my book

Unlike many countries, Football in England is as much a part of the culture as pubs......to have they game corrupted, especialy by an outside actor, to me is a direct attack on our culture.

My language might be a bit robust but I stand by the spirit

I just want to raise one other (political) point...

With Burnham reopening the Brexit can of worms (no comment), the special rules in banking could change, which would make Abu Dhabi investment in the UK less desirable from their PoV. In fact, there are a lot of geopolitical decisions happening at the moment that would have far more impact, this is just a tool that allows them to "save face", or in other words to avoid making public the real reason for pulling funds out of the UK, which could alert more people to "realities".

I agree with most of what Untouchable said, though, I would just add one thing...

All sanctions aimed at Man City are meaningless IF the owners and directors are not banned from football. The fit and proper owners test has been shown to be a sham in the past, but this is the most flagrant example, and they need to actually show that it is a real mechanism and ban the people involved.

 

[Banana]

I just want to raise one other (political) point...

With Burnham reopening the Brexit can of worms (no comment), the special rules in banking could change, which would make Abu Dhabi investment in the UK less desirable from their PoV. In fact, there are a lot of geopolitical decisions happening at the moment that would have far more impact, this is just a tool that allows them to "save face", or in other words to avoid making public the real reason for pulling funds out of the UK, which could alert more people to "realities".

I agree with most of what Untouchable said, though, I would just add one thing...

All sanctions aimed at Man City are meaningless IF the owners and directors are not banned from football. The fit and proper owners test has been shown to be a sham in the past, but this is the most flagrant example, and they need to actually show that it is a real mechanism and ban the people involved.

There's no doubt that (let's call it) diplomacy is involved here.

Any PM of any party would have to naviagate this issue.

Nothing to do with our relationship with the EU, so let's make absolutely sure that othogonical subject is parked with it's bonnet into the space first

There is no way that they owners will be banned from owning a English club, whether they are advised that it is a "good idea" to apply for an annual license going forwards is a completely different thing however

 

[Baubaul]

....has the 'park' been briefed by HM Gov yet.... call out the 'dogs'.... don't you just love geopolitics and football... games gone.

Don’t worry Slough House is on it

 

[WARFIELD BEE]

Oh, Look at this:

What a f***ing surprise eh?



UAE officials have warned the UK government that the severity of Man City’s punishment could undermine their appetite for future grand-scale commitments in Britain, according to people familiar with the matter

They consider the Premier League’s actions to have an influence on the bilateral state relationship, the people said, asking not to be identified discussing undisclosed information

The extraordinary pressure comes after Andy Burnham faced criticism, including from within government, for saying Man City’s Abu Dhabi owners should not be disqualified specifically because of the investment they bring to Britain
View: https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2105941014636642382?s=20

I said to my wife earlier Today that being Government owned threats would come.