It’s Only Violent Conduct When It’s Brentford

[Untouchable]

Compare these 2 VAR reviews.

This one today in the Liverpool v Arsenal match:


View: https://x.com/plmatchcentre/status/2116962536486539385?a=CUpRO5va24g1C2VdMNs&s=46


This contains a full rehearsal of Law 12 and the PL/ProRef competition guidance.

“not forceful, not violent, not brutal” so no red card.

Compare to the VAR review for the Yarmo sending off against Liverpool:


View: https://x.com/plmatchcentre/status/2111473071723012456?a=-4sWNJkHuq8djjgHnPA&s=46


Zero attempt to establish whether contact was forceful, violent, brutal or with excessive force. Or alternatively whether Jacquet was a cheating bastard.

 

[gbems92]

All these situations recently reminded me of Pedro nearly beheading yarmo and not even getting a yellow.
View attachment 1000040352.mp4

 

[Jezybee]

Notice also how Atwell used language that appears in the laws of the game. England, on the other hand…
As Banana mentioned on the Game Week thread, clearly the referees have been reminded of what the laws actually are.

 

[Chorlton Bee]

The absolute brass neck here!! What did he think his player did a fortnight ago??!!

Andoni Iraola: Liverpool boss says he will tell his players to dive in future

Andoni Iraola says that he will tell his players to go down in future after Liverpool were denied a penalty in Sunday's defeat by Arsenal.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[FunkyZeus]

Sorry - we all know this, but I just have to say...

Saw the below headline this morning, and felt like a ragebait article aimed indirectly at fans like us.

Gabriel and Mac Allister's cheating is not just embarrassing, it's malevolent and wicked... players need the threat of red cards for such dishonesty and - if that fails - punishments after review, writes IAN LADYMAN​

It's funny when Jacquet roles around on the ground, as if his life is flashing before his eyes, after being subject to a "headbutt action" by a Brentford player nothing is written about it in the press. However, when a player does the same theatrics to a Liverpool or an Arsenal, then there are countless articles in the press about how it's a crime against football, disgraceful trying to get a fellow professional sent off etc. etc...

 

[bexleybee]

Thread title felt like a Smiths song, so....

 

[JANORAK]

Sorry - we all know this, but I just have to say...

Saw the below headline this morning, and felt like a ragebait article aimed indirectly at fans like us.

Gabriel and Mac Allister's cheating is not just embarrassing, it's malevolent and wicked... players need the threat of red cards for such dishonesty and - if that fails - punishments after review, writes IAN LADYMAN​

It's funny when Jacquet roles around on the ground, as if his life is flashing before his eyes, after being subject to a "headbutt action" by a Brentford player nothing is written about it in the press. However, when a player does the same theatrics to a Liverpool or an Arsenal, then there are countless articles in the press about how it's a crime against football, disgraceful trying to get a fellow professional sent off etc. etc...

And when it’s Liver v. Arse? Who dives fastest? Last man standing takes the free kick?

 

[HMDBFC]

I hope this matter is raised on "Refwatch" this morning. All anyone demands is consistency across every match.
There has to be a strong case for retrospective action against these cheats.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

I hope this matter is raised on "Refwatch" this morning. All anyone demands is consistency across every match.
There has to be a strong case for retrospective action against these cheats.

I don't think I've seen a pundit or article reference the YY incident at all ( ironic given it was Liverpool) so I won't be holding my breath. Carragher yesterday might have been trying to recall it when he was having a bit of a rant but he didn't get there. If Carragher is on MNF tonight and they cover it, maybe he might have remembered by then.

 

[JANORAK]

I don't think I've seen a pundit or article reference the YY incident at all ( ironic given it was Liverpool) so I won't be holding my breath.

More irony was having Jacqueard (however it’s spelt) all over the medja, walking his dogs, kids, or both. How he felt settled in England - nothing about lying down, mind - blah, blah, blah…

 

[Surrey Bee]

Martinez yesterday and Palmer against Spurs both got yellows for actions far more violent than YY’s. Although they ended up being sent off for two yellows that’s only a one match ban rather than three.

 

[RT]

My love of football reduces every week with all this VAR bulls*it

 

[hanworthbee]

Didn't even think maduke touched him. Argies cheat

 

[RodBee]

Yarmo was sent off for 'taking an aggressive stance' - refs not my words.

Blimey! Players do that throughout the game with no action unless it is a Bees player!!!

 

[HMDBFC]

Refwatch coverage this morning of the MacAllister incident yesterday. The explanation given by VAR as to why it wasn't a red card for Madueke does not make sense when compared to Yarmo's dismissal a couple of weeks ago.

Source: Sky Sports Ref Watch discusses Noni Madueke and Alexis Mac Allister clash at Anfield

 

[Banana]

Yarmo was sent off for 'taking an aggressive stance' - refs not my words.

Blimey! Players do that throughout the game with no action unless it is a Bees player!!!

Those were NOT the ref's words. The ref's words were provided in the first post on this thread.

 

[Untouchable]

Those were NOT the ref's words. The ref's words were provided in the first post on this thread.

Yes. A ‘head butting action’ which itself doesn’t constitute violent conduct. Unlike Arsenal we weren’t given the courtesy of the remainder of the violent conduct section of Law 12 being applied.

 

[Lionel Bart-At]

A proper head butt would target the bridge of the nose surely, rather than the forehead. Forehead to forehead is merely posturing. This should be built into the legislation.

 

[lanzabee]

There's too much of this sh*te going on across the epl and beyond. Feigning injury to get another player sent off should be rewarded with a red card, making this sort of bollox counter productive.

 

[francistowerssc]

I don't think I've seen a pundit or article reference the YY incident at all ( ironic given it was Liverpool) so I won't be holding my breath. Carragher yesterday might have been trying to recall it when he was having a bit of a rant but he didn't get there. If Carragher is on MNF tonight and they cover it, maybe he might have remembered by then.

Rick Edwards (Liverpool fan) actually rightly mentioned our sending off on Football Daily podcast. I was impressed that he mentioned it.

 

[londonlegal]

A proper head butt would target the bridge of the nose surely, rather than the forehead. Forehead to forehead is merely posturing. This should be built into the legislation.

Sounds suspiciously like we should coach how to head butt properly and effectively!!

 

[Beeian]

My views on this Ref Watch program is the Gallagher generally goes with what was given at the time, Sky just want a discussion (argument) from Jobie McEnuff ( if that’s him) and any other special ex footballer guests. The analysis between Gallagher and others just gives entertainment or in our case frustration and annoyance when exactly what happen to Yarmo and he gets a red card and Madueke gets nothing, not even a yellow ( which would got him sent off as it was his second yellow card)

 

[Les Beeavinu]

My views on this Ref Watch program is the Gallagher generally goes with what was given at the time, Sky just want a discussion (argument) from Jobie McEnuff ( if that’s him) and any other special ex footballer guests. The analysis between Gallagher and others just gives entertainment or in our case frustration and annoyance when exactly what happen to Yarmo and he gets a red card and Madueke gets nothing, not even a yellow ( which would got him sent off as it was his second yellow card)

Jay Bothroyd

 

[LostBee]

Lets not go down this road of thinking the refs are somehow against us.

I think I have heard fans of just about every PL team say that there is some sort of agenda against them.

If there is a conspiracy against every team, then there isn't a conspiracy against any team.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Lets not go down this road of thinking the refs are somehow against us.

I think I have heard fans of just about every PL team say that there is some sort of agenda against them.

If there is a conspiracy against every team, then there isn't a conspiracy against any team.

Let's not pretend there isn't a top 6 bias in the Premier League.

 

[Rob-BEE]

Here's my take:
- i think Yarmo's is more of an action of an intent towards the player compared to Madueke's
- is that enough to result in a different outcome? I don't know but I do think there's a difference
- the better comparison is probably Gabriel on Haaland last season which was a stronger action and Haaland's lack of overreacting probably spared him the red
- which highlights the fact that players are incentivised to make the most out of everything. Which to me is the thing that pisses me off the most. Madueke not being sent off yesterday doesn't make any difference to us. Players being rewarded for cheating does.

 

[Rob-BEE]

Let's not pretend there isn't a top 6 bias in the Premier League.

Whether there is or there isn't, I don't see how a decision in a game between two top 6 teams is any evidence of that?

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Whether there is or there isn't, I don't see how a decision in a game between two top 6 teams is any evidence of that?

Not making the same big decisions.

 

[LostBee]

Let's not pretend there isn't a top 6 bias in the Premier League.

Oh for sure, can't disagree with that.

Unconcious bias is different from an agenda/conspiracy though.

We have had some fortunate decisions against "Big 6" teams as well at times, Toney's goal at Arsenal for instance.

Some decisions go for you and some go against, unfortunately fans have convenient amnesia when it comes to decisions that go their way.

 

[Rob-BEE]

Not making the same big decisions.

That's some bizarre logic there

 

[Gazza Bee]

Whether there is or there isn't, I don't see how a decision in a game between two top 6 teams is any evidence of that?

Completely missed the point - the same decision has 2 different outcomes depending if it is a top 6 team committing the offence. This is the bias element and it is clear as day.

 

[Rob-BEE]

Oh for sure, can't disagree with that.

Unconcious bias is different from an agenda/conspiracy though.

We have had some fortunate decisions against "Big 6" teams as well at times, Toney's goal at Arsenal for instance.

Some decisions go for you and some go against, unfortunately fans have convenient amnesia when it comes to decisions that go their way.

I'd tend to agree. I do think the biggest bias though is confirmation bias. Anyone who thinks the bigger clubs are favoured will latch onto decisions or stats which support their view. Like the starter of this thread.

Last season we were awarded the most pens. No doubt if it was actually Arsenal or Man Utd it would have been evidence of a bias (conscious or otherwise). In fact, Palace, Leeds and Bournemouth were also in the top 6 of penalties awarded last season. Liverpool were bottom. I suspect some of their fans will say there's a bias against them precisely BECAUSE they're a big club!

 

[Rob-BEE]

Completely missed the point - the same decision has 2 different outcomes depending if it is a top 6 team committing the offence. This is the bias element and it is clear as day.

I don't think 2 incidents is much of a smaller size to suggest that's any proof.

And in any case, in this case the ref is apparently biased towards one big 6 club whilst simultaneously being against another big 6 club. It makes no sense.

 

[Gazza Bee]

I don't think 2 incidents is much of a smaller size to suggest that's any proof.

And in any case, in this case the ref is apparently biased towards one big 6 club whilst simultaneously being against another big 6 club. It makes no sense.

Yeah you've missed the point completely, I'll stop here.

 

[HMDBFC]

Time to introduce new technology to help here. Based on crickets "Snicko" I propose "Butto" to help determine if any contact was actually made. Should help no end...

 

[Les Beeavinu]

That's some bizarre logic there

Why? Penalties not given, players not penalised, all because referees don't want to be tomorrow's headline. It would be nice if they applied the same standard that they apply to a non top 6 team.

 

[Rob-BEE]

Yeah you've missed the point completely, I'll stop here.

Please explain the point then?

 

[Rob-BEE]

Why? Penalties not given, players not penalised, all because referees don't want to be tomorrow's headline. It would be nice if they applied the same standard that they apply to a non top 6 team.

Ah so when a ref doesn't give a decision he's avoiding being the headline. But when a ref does give a controversial decision it's because he wants it to be all about him. This is classic confirmation bias I'm afraid.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

I don't think 2 incidents is much of a smaller size to suggest that's any proof.

And in any case, in this case the ref is apparently biased towards one big 6 club whilst simultaneously being against another big 6 club. It makes no sense.

I didn't make any mention of a bias over different top 6 sides, it must surely be obvious that games involving top 6 sides are refereed differently.

 

[Rob-BEE]

I didn't make any mention of a bias over different top 6 sides, it must surely be obvious that games involving top 6 sides are refereed differently.

In what way though? You're being selective in the examples to support your case. You think players aren't sent off in big games?

 

[Les Beeavinu]

In what way though? You're being selective in the examples to support your case. You think players aren't sent off in big games?

I'm making a general point, not basing it just on yesterdays game. You clearly disagree so I guess we'll just settle on a different opinion.

 

[Isleworth_Bee]

The problem we have now as a sport, is VAR is now not only being used for the benefit of gaining an advantage for the slightest of attacking moments and marginal decisions...................... Its now being used for the finer parts of the dark side of the game, because players know that every element of the game is being looked at by 50 cameras they will react and feign injury for the smallest of things.

The game has become too soft with every rule being micromanaged to the microscopic detail. No wonder the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool go down under the slightest of touch.............. And no wonder we are at the top of the table for bookings etc. The game is now at the point where it is non physical let alone non contact.

And the big club bias is 100% in force for these margins during games.

 

[FunkyZeus]

Jay Bothroyd

I found him extremely irritating on ref watch this evening that I ended up switching over

 

[Banana]

In what way though? You're being selective in the examples to support your case. You think players aren't sent off in big games?

Did you notice that Gabriel wasn't sent off for a headbutt on Harlaand?
Did you notice that the "headbutting action" at Liverpool vs Arsenal didn't result in a card?
Did you notice at vs Chelsea (below) that we should have had numerous penalties?

Not sure what evidence you need to see that refs are reluctant to make decisions against the bigger clubs.

View attachment Chelsea Holding (1).mp4

 

[FunkyZeus]

I think if a decision goes against a big 6 club, we don't hear the end of it in the press for ages, with the manager whining on and on and the press lapping it up. And it feels like the referees are much more likely to be hung out to dry by managers on a big 6 club by what they say to the press.

Toney's goal against Arsenal - it felt like Arteta banged on about it for ages and I was reading about it for even longer. I honestly felt it subconsciously filtered down to the refs that season, with the press then asking him in subsequent games if he was "happy" with the ref's decisions. One of the multitude of reasons I can't stand the man.

I might be completely wrong here but, if there is a bad ref decision against say a Palace, then the manager will say so in the post match interviews and the press will talk about it for 24/48 hours, and then all is forgotten.

 

[Untouchable]

Did you notice that Gabriel wasn't sent off for a headbutt on Harlaand?
Did you notice that the "headbutting action" at Liverpool vs Arsenal didn't result in a card?
Did you notice at vs Chelsea (below) that we should have had numerous penalties?

Not sure what evidence you need to see that refs are reluctant to make decisions against the bigger clubs.

View attachment 70131

Or Romero not being sent off in both league matches last season.

Or Gabriel not being sent off for the most obvious second booking at the GTech last season.

Or how about Robertson bundling over Ivan Toney at the GTech and no penalty given.

Or how about Kovacic injuring Wissa and not being sent off despite buckling his ankle.

Or Khusanov not being sent off for DOGSO in the EFL Cup last season.

Or Silva not being sent off for punching Collins last season.

This wasn’t even given as a free kick:


View: https://x.com/skysportsnews/status/1881309573082194364/video/1?s=46


But sure, the VAR made an error at the Emirates 4 years ago so we’re all treated equally.

 

[Banana]

@Rob-BEE

Here's are all the on-field decisions so far this season that were determined as wrong by the KMI Panel

I've highlighted European Cup winners in green to make it easier for you to spot any trends....

 

[paulmaddy]

I think the best (or worst) example of big club bias is when referees sometimes use players names when talking to them, and the same by VARs when looking at incidents.

They should stick to players numbers at all times for all teams like in rugby.

 

[Untouchable]

I think the best (or worst) example of big club bias is when referees sometimes use players names when talking to them, and the same by VARs when looking at incidents.

Absolutely. There was one VAR incident in a Bees match at Old Trafford where the Utd players were being referred to by name and BFC players were being referred to by number!

 

[Banana]

I think the best (or worst) example of big club bias is when referees sometimes use players names when talking to them, and the same by VARs when looking at incidents.

They should stick to players numbers at all times for all teams like in rugby.

Yes, fully agree. Even if the are not conciously being biased, it allows those listening to infer it.