Igor Thiago (2 Viewers)

Igor Thiago

Les Beeavinu said:
Here's a picture of James Tarkowski elbowing Ethan Pinnock in the head on Friday. Looks pretty bad from that picture to me but Stuart Atwell saw no issue with it. Rightly so, it was accidental.

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Totally agree, trouble is, Atwell was on VAR yesterday and has to get his opinion seen to be right! Every other game this season I've seen, if the ref has already issued a yellow VAR won't get involved. I always knew yesterday was going to be trouble as both Oliver and Atwell have to make it about them, as we were singing plenty of times yesterday!!
 

Igor Thiago

jlove said:
Whataboutery doesn't affect the VAR/referee's decision on the pitch. His explanation for upgrading the yellow to red was ‘... pushes his opponent in the face with force’ which was clearly true. Chema Andrés' actions before and during the incident are clearly mitigating circumstances but the reason for sending him off was accurate.

Keith post-match refers to the trend for players to bait opponents, feign facial injuries and generally aim to get opponents sent off – that's a whole different discussion that needs to be had but it's at a different level. Our players need more control over their emotions and we must've known we were going to get a high press 'on-the-edge' game, so it must've been in the briefing.

It happened, we move on and look forward to seeing Igor in our home game with City in four weeks' time.
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The sad part of all of this is that the most talked about bits during and after a game is all about the diving, cheating and ridiculous feigning of injuries, neither YY or Thiagos are sending offs it's just the childish behaviour of opponents and this is ruining watching and enjoying a game of football.
I've been watching football for almost 55 years and at the moment it's a chore instead of a passion which I never felt possible, get back to pre var when most seasons evened themselves out with incidents and players were men not pamperd pooches!!!!!!!!
 

Igor Thiago

jlove said:
Whataboutery doesn't affect the VAR/referee's decision on the pitch. His explanation for upgrading the yellow to red was ‘... pushes his opponent in the face with force’ which was clearly true. Chema Andrés' actions before and during the incident are clearly mitigating circumstances but the reason for sending him off was accurate.

Keith post-match refers to the trend for players to bait opponents, feign facial injuries and generally aim to get opponents sent off – that's a whole different discussion that needs to be had but it's at a different level. Our players need more control over their emotions and we must've known we were going to get a high press 'on-the-edge' game, so it must've been in the briefing.

It happened, we move on and look forward to seeing Igor in our home game with City in four weeks' time.
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This is the problem.

I think mitigation is used in Rugby.
I think if you view the whole Thiago incident and the Yarmo one against Liverpool the system in Rugby would come up with a different outcome.

If you just view Thiago's action in isolation it's a red card but viewed through the entire sequence I think it could easily have a different outcome.

The whole VAR thing is f***ed up, it's for clear and obvious errors and it wasn't.

Having just watched it back.....the game is f***ed and it's never a sending off imo, it's b***ocks
 

Igor Thiago

Stanley said:
For what it’s worth SSN Ref Watch unanimously thought the decision was wrong
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JAY BOTHROYD: The defender has initiated the whole incident; he has caused it.

When I look at it, Thiago is trying to shrug him off and his arm has brushed up the shirt and hit him in the face.

You cannot give red cards for that. You just can't. It is a terrible decision for me. It is the wrong decision.
 

Igor Thiago

The problem seems to have developed over the whole season. Referees have been taking a different approach this season and letting defenders get more physical with Igor. As well as the frustration of not having many chances and fluffing the ones he had, he has also had to deal with being held and pushed a lot more and not getting any protection from the officials. It came to a head with the Forest game where Darren England until the 90th min let Milkenovic manhandle him throughout the game.
Igor has been picking up regular bookings and his game and reaction need to be looked at as it will continue to be an issue with the officials. Then in yesterday's game he gets fouled and harassed trying to relieve the pressure and take the ball up the pitch, Oliver takes too long to blow for the offence and Thiago brushes Andres on the floor who then leaps up and shoves him hard in the chest, Thiago at this point with another Brighton player crowding him, tries to push him away but smacks him in the mouth. At that point it was always going to be a red, as he made contact with the face. It must be really hard to keep cool under such provocation but the Brentford players are now gaining a reputation for being hot headed and having disciplinary issues and other coaches and referees are picking up on this. Thiago needs to work with the Brentford staff to bounce back after the suspension with a new approach and somehow install calming mantras when being goaded.
 
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Igor Thiago

He doesn't deliberately strike the opponent and he doesn't use excessive force. Both are requirements for violent conduct under the law.

He's also provoked into the reaction to shrug off the opponent, by misconduct worthy of a yellow card, which further mitigates the (unintentional) outcome. I think Oliver was using his discretion under Law 5 and invoking the 'spirit of the game' stipulation when he gave a yellow in both directions, I don't think it is VAR's place to force a decision to overturn that call.

Given all the above I'm confident it's an incorrect decision. Not just "game's gone", but wrong. This should be appealed and overturned. Consensus also in the media and even amongst Brighton fans is also that it's not the right decision. This is not a three-game suspension offence.
 

Igor Thiago

BFC1997 said:
He doesn't deliberately strike the opponent and he doesn't use excessive force. Both are requirements for violent conduct under the law.
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This is correct. And it’s the wording of the laws that is important.

There are 2 routes to a red card for violent conduct.

The first:

“Violent conduct is when a player uses or attempts to use excessive force or brutality against an opponent when not challenging for the ball, or against a team-mate, team official, match official, spectator or any other person, regardless of whether contact is made.”

I’ve highlighted the necessary elements. We know that Oliver did not send Thiago off for excessive force or brutality because this was his announcement:


View: https://x.com/plmatchcentre/status/2119437631352099142?a=FhSL8Bt5y1WFOOR1E0w&s=46


Oliver’s use of ‘force’ in this context is to try and establish that the force was more than negligible.

So we’re into the second route to a red card:

“In addition, a player who, when not challenging for the ball, deliberately strikes an opponent or any other person on the head or face with the hand or arm, is guilty of violent conduct unless the force used was negligible.”

This requires intent. Thiago is not the aggressor. He is not looking at his opponent. He is walking away. The first contact is with the chest and then the arm comes up and makes contact with the face. You cannot establish that there was an intent to strike the face of his opponent.

Once you’ve ruled out excessive force and brutality (which can be done by the actual announcement made by Oliver) and once you’ve ruled out intent, violent conduct is not established.
 

Igor Thiago

I had a quick look at his disciplinary record playing in Bulgaria, Belgium and England. In all those countries he has a very similar record averaging a yellow card every 5 games, however Sunday was his first straight red.
 

Igor Thiago

brentford born & bred said:
I had a quick look at his disciplinary record playing in Bulgaria, Belgium and England. In all those countries he has a very similar record averaging a yellow card every 5 games, however Sunday was his first straight red.
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A quick (AI) search suggests he also had a sending off for 2 cautions for Brugge in 2023/24.
 

Igor Thiago

Wilton Bee said:
Totally agree, trouble is, Atwell was on VAR yesterday and has to get his opinion seen to be right! Every other game this season I've seen, if the ref has already issued a yellow VAR won't get involved. I always knew yesterday was going to be trouble as both Oliver and Atwell have to make it about them, as we were singing plenty of times yesterday!!
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Most of the blame lies with Atwell. Oliver had the decision right with a yellow card each, plus I've got no arguments with the penalty. Totally dumb from KLP.
 

Igor Thiago

The rules are kind of stupid, if he's jumping and his forearm catches the player it would barely be a yellow card, when he is trying to push off a player coming at him, red card.

There was zero reason for VAR to get involved, Oliver was right next to it and saw it all play out. VAR showed one clip of an out of context slow mo. If we were Arsenal we'd have 11 men and no penalty against us.

Thiago's been pushed and pulled the whole game, pushes a player off him, player gets up and comes at him and goes down like a complete tw*t.
 

Igor Thiago

Have any ex-players in the media said a red was the right decision, because I haven't seen any saying so. It's a shame we don't get ex-players involved in VAR as we'd get much better, commonsense decisions. Does anyone know if ex-players are on the appeals tribunals these days? I think they used to be.
 

Igor Thiago

Igor Thiago

Frothybaby said:
IT seemed to be having a barney with all the defenders before the red card incident.
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Oh I know he may have been wound up, but it's hardly as if they'd been piling into him all match - it was only 23 minutes. I love the guy, but he needs to learn more discipline - before the Red, he'd already picked up 4 Yellows in 9 games this season.

P.S. The above applies even where, as in Sunday's case, the Red card was harsh - he didn't need to get involved in the first place.
 
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Igor Thiago

Gawain said:
Oh I know he may have been wound up, but it's hardly as if they'd been piling into him all match - it was only 23 minutes. I love the guy, but he needs to learn more discipline - before the Red, he'd already picked up 4 Yellows in 9 games this season.

P.S. The above applies even where, as in Sunday's case, the Red card was harsh - he didn't need to get involved in the first place.
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2 of them shouldn't have been yellow. No ill discipline at all.
 

Igor Thiago

cliffbee said:
Most of the blame lies with Atwell. Oliver had the decision right with a yellow card each, plus I've got no arguments with the penalty. Totally dumb from KLP.
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True wrt Atwell, although KLP was guilty in this instance, again it started as both pulling and pushing, I believe there is such inconsistency across all the refs as to what they let go in the area for corners the players don't know where they stand in each match!
 

Igor Thiago

This is the comment of the Key Match Incidents Panel reviewing all the controversial VAR decisions throughout all the PL weekend matches.

Incident: Igor Thiago was sent off following a VAR review after he caught the head of Chema Andres with his forearm.

Verdict: The Brentford striker can consider himself unfortunate, as there is doubt that he truly intended to catch the Spaniard in the face.

What the KMI Panel might say: It may seem like a soft dismissal, but the VAR intervention is likely to be supported because the law does say that a strike to the head should be a red card, unless force is negligible.
 

Igor Thiago

Les Beeavinu said:
2 of them shouldn't have been yellow. No ill discipline at all.
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Even more reason to walk away, rather than get involved and/or give the officials an excuse..

Listen, I'm not having a go at the guy, he's still relatively inexperienced at this level etc, meaning staying out of the ref's book is just another element of his game he needs to work on.
 

Igor Thiago

cliffbee said:
Most of the blame lies with Atwell. Oliver had the decision right with a yellow card each, plus I've got no arguments with the penalty. Totally dumb from KLP.
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I doubt Attwell would have even though of intervention if it had been any club other than Brentford.
 

Igor Thiago

Oceanbee said:
This is the comment of the Key Match Incidents Panel reviewing all the controversial VAR decisions throughout all the PL weekend matches.

Incident: Igor Thiago was sent off following a VAR review after he caught the head of Chema Andres with his forearm.

Verdict: The Brentford striker can consider himself unfortunate, as there is doubt that he truly intended to catch the Spaniard in the face.

What the KMI Panel might say: It may seem like a soft dismissal, but the VAR intervention is likely to be supported because the law does say that a strike to the head should be a red card, unless force is negligible.
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This was not the KMI panel. It was a piece by Dale Johnson for the BBC.
 

Igor Thiago

Oceanbee said:
This is the comment of the Key Match Incidents Panel reviewing all the controversial VAR decisions throughout all the PL weekend matches.

Incident: Igor Thiago was sent off following a VAR review after he caught the head of Chema Andres with his forearm.

Verdict: The Brentford striker can consider himself unfortunate, as there is doubt that he truly intended to catch the Spaniard in the face.

What the KMI Panel might say: It may seem like a soft dismissal, but the VAR intervention is likely to be supported because the law does say that a strike to the head should be a red card, unless force is negligible.
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1. That is Dale Johnson, not the KMI Panel
2. I don't care wha the KMI Panel say, it's the Appeal Panel that counts.
 

Igor Thiago

MinkyBee said:
My personal thoughts are the club should appeal to downgrade the Red to a single game ban, as I feel the was more a case of ‘self defence’, and not violent conduct. I
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This is not on the table.
Either it is violent conduct which is a mandatory three match ban or it was not which means it is not a red card offence and there is no ban.
An appeal of wrongful dismiss is not about bartering the length of suspension.
 

Igor Thiago

difford said:
This is not on the table.
Either it is violent conduct which is a mandatory three match ban or it was not which means it is not a red card offence and there is no ban.
An appeal of wrongful dismiss is not about bartering the length of suspension.
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Not quite as I understand it.

A claim under Fast Track 5 where the standard punishment would be "clearly excessive" can succeed.

Henry Sandat, Hornchurch FC, 14 March 2026. Was reduced from 3 to 1 after being sent off for violent conduct
Nemanja Matić, Chelsea, 21 February 2015 Was reduced from 3 to 2
Lucas Digne, Everton, 25 October 2020. Was reduced from 3 to 1.
 

Igor Thiago

Downgrading to Yellow (which he had been given before VAR got involved) will mean he 'only' misses Everton game.
Under "5 Yellows" rule.
 

Igor Thiago

cheekybee74 said:
When is the appeal to be heard?
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It’ll be quick.

By comparison, Mateta was sent off on the Saturday evening and his appeal had been heard and rejected by the following Wednesday morning.

Expect an outcome within 48-72 hours I reckon.
 

Igor Thiago

Untouchable said:
This was not the KMI panel. It was a piece by Dale Johnson for the BBC.
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OK, thanks. I misunderstood the way I first read it.

Personally, I still think it was unintentional by Thiago.

The Brighton player jumps back up from the ground, and then proceeds to hold him.
All that Thiago was doing, was trying to pull away. He is turning away not even looking at the Brighton player, who is deliberately still trying to make an issue out of it.

His arm/hand just happen to end up where they did.

If the Brighton player hadn’t insisted on re-engaging, and putting his head close to him, because he was holding Thiago, then nothing would have happened.
 

Igor Thiago

Although it may not be relevant in Mr T’s case, but if an appeal is requested, in general, isn’t there the possibility that the panel may (or can) increase the punishment?
 

Igor Thiago

Banana said:
How exactly?
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If the red card is removed then as he had committed a yellow card offence then surely he will not walk away a completely free man so as to speak. I would expect the original yellow to be reinstated.
If this is wrong, explain what you expect to happen. You are usually correct so I would be interested to read your explanation as to what will happen.
 

Igor Thiago

TadB said:
If the red card is removed then as he had committed a yellow card offence then surely he will not walk away a completely free man so as to speak. I would expect the original yellow to be reinstated.
If this is wrong, explain what you expect to happen. You are usually correct so I would be interested to read your explanation as to what will happen.
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The yellow card was rescinded. It doesn't exist anymore. When have you ever seen a red card overturned on appeal and replaced with a yellow? e.g. Norgaard.

I agree it may be a little counterintuative, but that's how football disclipline works - in mysterious ways.
 

Igor Thiago

Beelated said:
Although it may not be relevant in Mr T’s case, but if an appeal is requested, in general, isn’t there the possibility that the panel may (or can) increase the punishment?
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The regulations allow a penalty to be increased (up to doubled) if “the claim had no prospect of success and/or amounts to an abuse of process”

In practice this hasn’t happened for some time according to commentators like Dale Johnson.
 
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