Igor Thiago

[Romt2]

I hope he scores a brace on Sunday

Not a hat trick?

 

[longtimeagobee]

Quite obvious that I am referring to Referees, and in particular to their approach to the management of each of our games. If you attend games in person then you must be blind if you consider that Brentford get a fair rub of the green from the officials. I personally have given up expecting an even handed approach, and, never, getting a 50/50 decision. Sometimes decisions are outrageous where our players treatment is completely different to the opposition. Other teams are permitted to appeal to the Referee whilst anything from us is stamped on.
This last match v Liverpool was clearly a step up with the treatment of Janelt & Yarmoluk.
I suggest that you concentrate when watching the next game, or perhaps you are an armchair supporter.

You need to get a grip, all teams supporters say the same thing at some point. Referees make mistakes all the time, to suggest it’s an organised conspiracy against little old us is bonkers.

For info, not that it’s any concern of yours, I’m a S/T holder (W230) & try to concentrate my hardest, not to your level though apparently.

 

[Freebee]

You need to get a grip, all teams supporters say the same thing at some point. Referees make mistakes all the time, to suggest it’s an organised conspiracy against little old us is bonkers.

For info, not that it’s any concern of yours, I’m a S/T holder (W230) & try to concentrate my hardest, not to your level though apparently.

I agree it's ridiculous especially as last season we were awarded the most penalties in the league

 

[mhead bee]

Quite obvious that I am referring to Referees, and in particular to their approach to the management of each of our games. If you attend games in person then you must be blind if you consider that Brentford get a fair rub of the green from the officials. I personally have given up expecting an even handed approach, and, never, getting a 50/50 decision. Sometimes decisions are outrageous where our players treatment is completely different to the opposition. Other teams are permitted to appeal to the Referee whilst anything from us is stamped on.
This last match v Liverpool was clearly a step up with the treatment of Janelt & Yarmoluk.
I suggest that you concentrate when watching the next game, or perhaps you are an armchair supporter.

Agreed

Look at Kevin’s booking, ref wasn’t even looking and the Liverpool player ran on the pitch gesticulating to the ref. And the card popped out.

But Liverpool did 4 tactical fouls and kicked the ball away and not a yellow shown. This is just two of the examples that spring to mind. Var should be looking at the shoulder to Yarmo’s face and the dive for Kevin’s card, the rules are there to do this

 

[mhead bee]

I agree it's ridiculous especially as last season we were awarded the most penalties in the league

And all warranted, and another 4-5 not given that should be

Big club bias exists, only the deluded would deny it, you see it when we play smaller clubs in the cup, we get given everything. It’s not right at any level

 

[TadB]

You need to get a grip, all teams supporters say the same thing at some point. Referees make mistakes all the time, to suggest it’s an organised conspiracy against little old us is bonkers.

For info, not that it’s any concern of yours, I’m a S/T holder (W230) & try to concentrate my hardest, not to your level though apparently.

Clearly Referees make mistakes, but not consistently those that affect Brentford only. There are numerous examples in every game where they are not even handed.

 

[Gazza Bee]

You need to get a grip, all teams supporters say the same thing at some point. Referees make mistakes all the time, to suggest it’s an organised conspiracy against little old us is bonkers.

For info, not that it’s any concern of yours, I’m a S/T holder (W230) & try to concentrate my hardest, not to your level though apparently.

You think we get a fair deal in games? I refer you to the past 2 matches and Sunderland with many, many pieces of evidence to the contrary

 

[longtimeagobee]

You think we get a fair deal in games? I refer you to the past 2 matches and Sunderland with many, many pieces of evidence to the contrary

Ask any supporter of any club that question & not many, any?, will say they get a fair deal.
But to say it’s a concerted effort by referees to target us is cobblers.
IMHO, of course.

 

[longtimeagobee]

Clearly Referees make mistakes, but not consistently those that affect Brentford only. There are numerous examples in every game where they are not even handed.

See reply to @Gazza Bee above.

 

[North London Bee]

I found an interesting stat that might open a few eyes.

Last season Igor Thiago committed 73 fouls - the most by any player in the EPL. He was fouled himself only 26 times, almost 3 x less than he was penalised.It is hard to find another player with a similar disproportion in his stats.

This season he has fouled 14 times and been fouled only 4 times

By way of comparison, a similar type of player in DCL at Leeds committed 45 fouls last season but was fouled himself 38 times. This season it is 15 and 7.

The figures are striking and in my mind speak volumes.

 

[w6bee]

Remember - “Just because you think everyone is out to get you, it doesn’t mean they’re not”.

 

[Jim Rourke]

I found an interesting stat that might open a few eyes.

Last season Igor Thiago committed 73 fouls - the most by any player in the EPL. He was fouled himself only 26 times, almost 3 x less than he was penalised.It is hard to find another player with a similar disproportion in his stats.

This season he has fouled 14 times and been fouled only 4 times

By way of comparison, a similar type of player in DCL at Leeds committed 45 fouls last season but was fouled himself 38 times. This season it is 15 and 7.

The figures are striking and in my mind speak volumes.

Sadly every foul seems to be a yellow card

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Quite obvious that I am referring to Referees, and in particular to their approach to the management of each of our games. If you attend games in person then you must be blind if you consider that Brentford get a fair rub of the green from the officials. I personally have given up expecting an even handed approach, and, never, getting a 50/50 decision. Sometimes decisions are outrageous where our players treatment is completely different to the opposition. Other teams are permitted to appeal to the Referee whilst anything from us is stamped on.
This last match v Liverpool was clearly a step up with the treatment of Janelt & Yarmoluk.
I suggest that you concentrate when watching the next game, or perhaps you are an armchair supporter.

I don't subscribe to the view that they are trying to get rid of us but I suspect that we, and some of our players, are the subject of ProRef briefings and the collective has formed a common approach to how they referee our games. Maybe we should ask Howard Webb what's going on.

 

[North London Bee]

I don't subscribe to the view that they are trying to get rid of us but I suspect that we, and some of our players, are the subject of ProRef briefings and the collective has formed a common approach to how they referee our games. Maybe we should ask Howard Webb what's going on.

Just said pretty much the same in tonight’s Across the Seas podcast.

 

[Hippobee]

I don't subscribe to the view that they are trying to get rid of us but I suspect that we, and some of our players, are the subject of ProRef briefings and the collective has formed a common approach to how they referee our games. Maybe we should ask Howard Webb what's going on.

Agree with the first part, and I would fully expect that lots of individual players from a variety of clubs would be the subject of ProRef briefings, including ours.

And if the club itself genuinely think we are being 'wronged' on a regular, unfair basis, I would expect the club would contact Webb. Maybe they have already.

I'm not convinced we are as hard done by as some make out, though. We've been on the wrong end of errors, yes. But posts indicating conspiracies and other 'they're out to get us' delusions are incredible.

 

[Shirley Bee]

The figures are striking and in my mind speak volumes.

They are striking. I’d always imagined that fouls between centre backs and strikers were about 50/50.
They do speak volumes, but what do you think they say? That IT is very clumsy? That he does bad things that referees have been told to look out for? That he plays for Brentford?

 

[North London Bee]

They are striking. I’d always imagined that fouls between centre backs and strikers were about 50/50.
They do speak volumes, but what do you think they say? That IT is very clumsy? That he does bad things that referees have been told to look out for? That he plays for Brentford?

What do YOU think?

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Agree with the first part, and I would fully expect that lots of individual players from a variety of clubs would be the subject of ProRef briefings, including ours.

And if the club itself genuinely think we are being 'wronged' on a regular, unfair basis, I would expect the club would contact Webb. Maybe they have already.

I'm not convinced we are as hard done by as some make out, though. We've been on the wrong end of errors, yes. But posts indicating conspiracies and other 'they're out to get us' delusions are incredible.

Referees surely shouldn't go into a game with any pre-conceptions, that would just be bias. Just ref the game in front of them, that's all we ask.

 

[North London Bee]

Referees surely shouldn't go into a game with any pre-conceptions, that would just be bias. Just ref the game in front of them, that's all we ask.

Unfortunately they’re only human and exchange information and I’m almost certain that they do into games pre-warned and knowing exactly what they are looking for and keen to find it.

The story on us is we are tough, rugged, shirk no challenges and try and create havoc at set pieces - they’re looking out for us I’m afraid

 

[Banana]

Referees surely shouldn't go into a game with any pre-conceptions, that would just be bias. Just ref the game in front of them, that's all we ask.

I am certain that they would come to a few about how certain players play and whether it's on the edge or over it. That would be pretty normal, no?

"Vinnie Jones - need to watch how he backs into players and grabs their b***ocks" etc.

 

[Banana]

The story in us is we are tough, rugged, shirk no challenges and try and create havoc at set pieces - they’re looking out for us I’m afraid

But for Arsenal.... "we don't want to become the story why Arsenal didn't win the league"

Hence why no red card for Gabriel's headbutt - "we can't decide who wins the title with a red card"

 

[Hippobee]

Referees surely shouldn't go into a game with any pre-conceptions, that would just be bias. Just ref the game in front of them, that's all we ask.

It doesn't need to be bias. I would want referees to be aware that a diving, cheating so and so has a reputation for doing a Tom Daley, so he can be on the lookout for it, so he doesn't win a free kick every time he falls over. The ref can still call it as he sees it, but only award fouls if he sees significant foul play.

 

[w6bee]

AI could be used to review the decision in every game over a season to identify where incorrect decisions have been made. This would then show if any teams receive a disproportionate amount of incorrect decisions either for/against them.

This type of analysis could deliver some uncomfortable results.

 

[North London Bee]

But for Arsenal.... "we don't want to become the story why Arsenal didn't win the league"

Hence why no red card for Gabriel's headbutt - "we can't decide who wins the title with a red card"

Nobody really cares about us and we’re not challenging for honours so there are no ramifications or comebacks if we have the book thrown at us.

 

[badgerbee]

Nobody really cares about us and we’re not challenging for honours so there are no ramifications or comebacks if we have the book thrown at us.

Yep.
If that had been the same reason for a Red card being shown to a Liverpool player on Saturday. Or shown by Brooks to an Arsenal, Man U, Chelsea player, in another game for that "offence", the press would have been all over the comparison with what Brooks didnt do to Gabriel last season.
Because it was only a Bees player, no one (other than us) has even felt it necessary to bring up the comparison....
Joke.

 

[malkay]

Someone need to snip the 4 bookings he's had and send them to Webb for his "thoughts"

Bournemouth
View attachment 1000036647.mp4

Villa
View attachment 1000036649.mp4

Liverpool
View attachment 1000036642.mp4


The Chelsea one isn't worth looking for. He was booked for removing his shirt after putting us 2-0 up. It's a stupid law but that and the Bournemouth card (which he didn't complain about) were justified. The last two have been nothing short of a disgrace from the cheating players and the stupid refs who fell for it.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Did anyone see Mamoush's winner for Spurs last night? Compare that to Igor's challenge against Liverpool.

 

[TadB]

Remember - “Just because you think everyone is out to get you, it doesn’t mean they’re not”.

I had to think about that one!

 

[bee nice to me]

Did anyone see Mamoush's winner for Spurs last night? Compare that to Igor's challenge against Liverpool.

I’m inclined to agree, however, the difference being the ref missed or decided not to penalise the marmoush incident and var decided it wasn’t clear and obvious enough to call him out for it. On the igor one, the ref did see it and decided to penalise him (in my view wrongly), but var cannot intervene on a first yellow so can’t question the decision (maybe we could have appealed it?). Tough maybe, but not CLEAR bias unless you subscribe to the conspiracy theory.

 

[TadB]

I’m inclined to agree, however, the difference being the ref missed or decided not to penalise the marmoush incident and var decided it wasn’t clear and obvious enough to call him out for it. On the igor one, the ref did see it and decided to penalise him (in my view wrongly), but var cannot intervene on a first yellow so can’t question the decision (maybe we could have appealed it?). Tough maybe, but not CLEAR bias unless you subscribe to the conspiracy theory.

Not in isolation, but coupled with several such decisions over a few games it displays continuous bias. Comparison with similar incidents involving other teams called differently reinforces the bias hypothesis.

 

[aslan]

Bournemouth
View attachment 69845

Villa
View attachment 69846

Liverpool
View attachment 69847


The Chelsea one isn't worth looking for. He was booked for removing his shirt after putting us 2-0 up. It's a stupid law but that and the Bournemouth card (which he didn't complain about) were justified. The last two have been nothing short of a disgrace from the cheating players and the stupid refs who fell for it.

Hand the card in their hand whilst the whistle was still in their mouth!

 

[mhead bee]

Ask any supporter of any club that question & not many, any?, will say they get a fair deal.
But to say it’s a concerted effort by referees to target us is cobblers.
IMHO, of course.

My mate support Villa, he watched the Sunderland game, the Leeds game and even the Villa game and said in all 3, you don’t get much off the ref do you.

 

[longtimeagobee]

My mate support Villa, he watched the Sunderland game, the Leeds game and even the Villa game and said in all 3, you don’t get much off the ref do you.

Ask your Villa mate if he thinks they’ve ever had some dodgy decisions. This persecution complex applies to every clubs fans.

Rise above people !!!

 

[TadB]

Ask your Villa mate if he thinks they’ve ever had some dodgy decisions. This persecution complex applies to every clubs fans.

Rise above people !!!

We have several dodgy decisions every game & many are crucial. This season is worse and are likely to lead to suspensions that will further handicap our progress.

Rise above it is patronising! You took exception at being considered an armchair fan. People do not like being patronised.

 

[BURFORD BEE]

Ask your Villa mate if he thinks they’ve ever had some dodgy decisions. This persecution complex applies to every clubs fans.

Rise above people !!!

Congratulations on this year's most condescending post.

 

[malkay]

Hand the card in their hand whilst the whistle was still in their mouth!

Who's the Scouser in the blue
View attachment 1000036690.mp4


Here's the Schade yellow card as well for absolute ABH on someone who the whole north stand was convinced had done their ACL in the first half, he was down holding that knee for 3 mins and pounding the turf with his fists. Shame award season for actors is still a few months away
View attachment 1000036691.mp4


I feel for whoever the chap was on co-comms having to sit next to an apologist who backs up the ref before even seeing the footage (not just in these clips) and then has to add a common sense view of what he's seen

 

[mhead bee]

Ask your Villa mate if he thinks they’ve ever had some dodgy decisions. This persecution complex applies to every clubs fans.

Rise above people !!!

Not during the Villa game he didn't, he openly admitted what was going on.

You feel free to rise above it if you like, we will continue to fight the good fight for fairness and accountability.

 

[badgerbee]

Who's the Scouser in the blue
View attachment 69854


Here's the Schade yellow card as well for absolute ABH on someone who the whole north stand was convinced had done their ACL in the first half, he was down holding that knee for 3 mins and pounding the turf with his fists. Shame award season for actors is still a few months away
View attachment 69855


I feel for whoever the chap was on co-comms having to sit next to an apologist who backs up the ref before even seeing the footage (not just in these clips) and then has to add a common sense view of what he's seen

Can't do video clips, perhaps you can @malkay?
But compare what Igor was penalised for in the first clip here with what WASN'T given for Munoz's push on Anthony on 7 minutes on Saturday in the full match replay:

Full Match Replay | Brentford 1 Liverpool 2 | Premier League - Brentford FC

The Bees produced a spirited performance but suffered their first Premier League defeat of the season as Liverpool came from behind to claim a 2-1 victory at Gtech Community Stadium. The Bees started brightly and took a deserved lead just before half-time when Keane Lewis-Potter headed home Igor...

www.brentfordfc.com

Absolutely no difference!!!

 

[NickThe(Half)Greek]

One thing we can be fairly sure Brentford will be doing is having our analysts pour over the stats on (and nature of) fouls across the league. And if they believe there is a data/ evidence based case that we are being overly/ unfairly penalised then I imagine we’ll be in robust dialogue with the relevant PL/ ref people.

 

[malkay]

Can't do video clips, perhaps you can @malkay?
But compare what Igor was penalised for in the first clip here with what WASN'T given for Munoz's push on Anthony on 7 minutes on Saturday in the full match replay:

Full Match Replay | Brentford 1 Liverpool 2 | Premier League - Brentford FC

The Bees produced a spirited performance but suffered their first Premier League defeat of the season as Liverpool came from behind to claim a 2-1 victory at Gtech Community Stadium. The Bees started brightly and took a deserved lead just before half-time when Keane Lewis-Potter headed home Igor...

www.brentfordfc.com

Absolutely no difference!!!

Yes! That was the foul I was trying to remember in the first half when writing my last post.

There was also a moment immediately after Joe Gomez came on where he pulled Thiago's right arm while grabbing his neck with his left hand as they contested an aerial ball. Referee was looking at it but was unmoved, as opposed to the incident with Schade where both players were batting each other with their arms and then the ref gathered with his teammates to ask what happened before booking Schade.

I was gonna clip some of these but it's a bit overkill on the vids and I just wanted to put the key moments (ie the booking of our players) for posterity.

Also re Thiago's booking in the Villa game, the commentator said the ref was totting up his fouls but Opta said Thiago committed 2 fouls in the game and that moment he murdered Buendia in a clash of shoulders and waists was his first!

 

[malkay]

One thing we can be fairly sure Brentford will be doing is having our analysts pour over the stats on (and nature of) fouls across the league. And if they believe there is a data/ evidence based case that we are being overly/ unfairly penalised then I imagine we’ll be in robust dialogue with the relevant PL/ ref people.

Nah, we're not Forest / fatty Marinakis.

We will definitely analyse and if there's something that can be coached better (even if it's how Vitaly speaks to the ref), the players will no doubt be consulted.

... but we won't throw out toys out of the pram or claim it's a conspiracy, because it isn't. It's just abject refereeing that may slightly be influenced by referee's assumptions that were an overly physical team (I'm just guessing). If so, they would defend that view on the evidence of our foul and card count despite it being a reputation they're playing a big part in manufacturing - as per all these vids.

 

[stomalomalus]

Like others I see a frustrated player combating against bigger stronger CBs every week without any protection from the officials. It's obviously the case that teams have worked him out and are able to stifle his hold up potential by swamping him both legally and illegally. He's never been the best at winning aerial duals and invariably he is jumping from a standing position with an opposition player either holding him or climbing all over him. IMO we play the long high ball to him too often.
KS on the other hand is fantastic at getting off the ground especially when he is able to run and jump for the ball. Why not play KS more centrally occasionally with Thiago running off him? Thiago draws defenders with him and KS might profit from the extra available time and space.
Just a thought...

I actually think that's a potential tactic, especially with KLP... we lineup in a 4-3-3, but Kev drifts infield, Keane moves up, and Vitaly drops out and back to make a 442. Teams do in in defense, but I think it would be a valid system in transition for us. Kev and Igor in close proximity to each other could be like a cheat code

 

[stomalomalus]

Yes! That was the foul I was trying to remember in the first half when writing my last post.

There was also a moment immediately after Joe Gomez came on where he pulled Thiago's right arm while grabbing his neck with his left hand as they contested an aerial ball. Referee was looking at it but was unmoved, as opposed to the incident with Schade where both players were batting each other with their arms and then the ref gathered with his teammates to ask what happened before booking Schade.

I was gonna clip some of these but it's a bit overkill on the vids and I just wanted to put the key moments (ie the booking of our players) for posterity.

Also re Thiago's booking in the Villa game, the commentator said the ref was totting up his fouls but Opta said Thiago committed 2 fouls in the game and that moment he murdered Buendia in a clash of shoulders and waists was his first!

That "foul" was one of the worst instances of bad decision I have seen from a ref. There doesn't even appear to be a foul. The ref is reffing the "result" not the action, which is not right.

 

[badgerbee]

That "foul" was one of the worst instances of bad decision I have seen from a ref. There doesn't even appear to be a foul. The ref is reffing the "result" not the action, which is not right.

Was certainly less of a foul than the one not given on KLP at the end of last season which ended up with Everton (?) scoring....

 

[Untouchable]

One thing we can be fairly sure Brentford will be doing is having our analysts pour over the stats on (and nature of) fouls across the league. And if they believe there is a data/ evidence based case that we are being overly/ unfairly penalised then I imagine we’ll be in robust dialogue with the relevant PL/ ref people.

Yes. Clubs can have direct contact with ProRef. We know how measured PG and MB are and I expect that is how we conduct ourselves with Howard Webb etc. Compare and contrast with the buffoon Marinakis.

I also expect that MB takes off his fan hat when looking at referee data and if there is anything pointing towers us not getting a fair crack, we’ll make our case.

 

[NickThe(Half)Greek]

Nah, we're not Forest / fatty Marinakis.

We will definitely analyse and if there's something that can be coached better (even if it's how Vitaly speaks to the ref), the players will no doubt be consulted.

... but we won't throw out toys out of the pram or claim it's a conspiracy, because it isn't. It's just abject refereeing that may slightly be influenced by referee's assumptions that were an overly physical team (I'm just guessing). If so, they would defend that view on the evidence of our foul and card count despite it being a reputation they're playing a big part in manufacturing - as per all these vids.

Maybe. I was coming at it in terms of marginal gains and less about conspiracy.

 

[LostBee]

Blimey, some of those decisions are absolutely deplorable.

Not sure what the answer is for IT. We need him to be physical but the refs seem to be all over him at the moment.

 

[Beecareful]

I found an interesting stat that might open a few eyes.

Last season Igor Thiago committed 73 fouls - the most by any player in the EPL. He was fouled himself only 26 times, almost 3 x less than he was penalised.It is hard to find another player with a similar disproportion in his stats.

This season he has fouled 14 times and been fouled only 4 times

By way of comparison, a similar type of player in DCL at Leeds committed 45 fouls last season but was fouled himself 38 times. This season it is 15 and 7.

The figures are striking and in my mind speak volumes.

Interesting

 

[Beecareful]

Last evening Bayern Munich played Harry Kane in attacking midfield. It dragged Arsenal's defence out of position. He worked hard and produced a great through ball for BM's equaliser.

Any mileage in Thiago playing ( occasionally) in a deeper role??? Possibly with Wilson or Schade upfront.

 

[hanworthbee]

Last evening Bayern Munich played Harry Kane in attacking midfield. It dragged Arsenal's defence out of position. He worked hard and produced a great through ball for BM's equaliser.

Any mileage in Thiago playing ( occasionally) in a deeper role??? Possibly with Wilson or Schade upfront.

No. Kane is a brilliant footballer one of the best in the world that's why he can play there